More Than Anxiety

Ep 144 - How To Stop Overthinking And Handle Intrusive Thoughts

• Megan Devito • Episode 144

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In this episode, coach Megan Devito explains how to stop anxious overthinking and learn to choose which thoughts to believe, even when your brain feels like it's on fire.

• Understanding the difference between creative, productive thinking and anxiety-driven overthinking
• Learning to recognize when your brain is protecting you vs when it's locked into fear-based thinking.
• Handling intrusive thoughts without giving them power over your emotions
• Why you can't outthink anxiety (your thinking brain doesn't work well when you're anxious)
• Breaking the cycle between anxious thoughts and physical sensations
• How to use breathing (4-4-6 count) to interrupt nighttime overthinking and fall asleep
• Using how your body feels as a signal to check your thoughts
• Learning to trust yourself instead of every thought that crosses your mind
• How her clients move from overthinking to action and confidence

Want to see what's working in your life and what's keeping you stuck? Join me for a free Boundaries and Balance Audit. We'll look at seven different areas of your life and create a focused step forward. You can learn more and schedule at megandevito.com.


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Hey there, welcome to the More Than Anxiety podcast. I'm Megan Devito, and I help ambitious women break out of the anxiety spiral so they can stop overthinking and actually enjoy life. This podcast is all about real talk, simple shifts, and lightbulb moments that'll change the way you think, feel, and show up for yourself and everybody else in your life too. You'll get straight-up truth, actionable steps, and the inspiration to finally break free from the stress and second-guessing. Let's get to it.

Hey there, welcome to the More Than Anxiety Podcast. My name is Megan Devito, and I'm so excited for you to be here for episode 144. If you've listened to previous episodes, then you might notice that this sounds a little bit familiar.

0:47 I'm doing a remix on episode 26 this week. This has been a really popular episode, and I want to give it a fresh take and to be able to add some new thoughts, as well as add it to YouTube. So there's going to be a video component. And, as I said in the original recording, my brain is going all the time with new ideas, new thoughts, going back and thinking about what I've already recorded so that I can make it better and more applicable to you. So, with all the ideas that I've got going about how I'm making little changes here and there in my life, like we all do, the more that I practice, the more that I live, and the more that I coach, the more that I have to tell you guys. So this is a reflection and also a remix at the same time. My brain, probably like yours, is going from the moment I wake up in the morning until I go to sleep at night in the best possible way. And it struck me as I was writing this episode that my mind has always been filled with a lot of song lyrics and chatter and ideas, but the flood of thoughts that I have now is 100% different than it used to be. So this episode is going to help answer the question, "Why can't I stop thinking?" and give you some insight into what you can do when your brain is on fire, particularly when you're thinking thoughts that are anxious and not very inspiring or that are keeping you stuck and really locked in the habits that you don't want to have anymore, because there's such a huge difference between being inspired and critical thinking and letting your thoughts run wild.

2:21 I posted yesterday on LinkedIn that you are allowed to think anything you want, but you have to be very particular on what you actually believe. So let's talk about that, because when we talk about the thoughts that you have, there's not really a right or wrong. And sometimes letting your thoughts run wild is exactly what you need to do. Sometimes you need to brainstorm. So creativity, inspiration, and shower thoughts—where I get some of my best thinking. You guys, I keep waterproof paper in my shower because I have so many good ideas when I'm taking a shower. So, shower thoughts.

2:56 Sometimes that's when your brain does its best. Your brain's job is to think, and it's going to do that, so this can be really great when you're planning a party or when you're getting ready for vacation, when you've been looking forward to something and all of the inspiration is just pouring in on you. You can put yourself on a beach while you're driving home from work or when you're lost in your thoughts. But on the flip side, you can use this against yourself too. So for people who tend to be more sensitive or anxious or depressed, who really struggle to keep a positive mindset, letting your brain think without any boundaries isn't something that's fun or motivating, often for those people. Because the thoughts you have aren't focused on what you want or what feels good. They're very protective or negative and focused on everything that scares you or that's dangerous, and they aren't really the thoughts that you want to have, because your brain is a brain and its job is to think and to make sense of what's going on around you and particularly how your body feels.

4:03 I want you to be able to capture your thoughts and to choose what you're thinking. So this kind of overthinking shows up in a very different way, but often when you're anxious, it looks like imagining or expecting the worst-case scenario. So for you, this might also be as simple as a thought that's followed up with, "That would be just my luck." Or, "Oh, yeah, like I'm positive that everything's about ready to fall apart." Or just expecting to be fired from your job for no actual reason, expecting that your friend is angry with you when you don't actually know. Because when we have those thoughts, they cause our body to feel great. If we have positive, great thoughts—if you're thinking about mai tais on a beach, you're like, "Yeah, that feels amazing." But if you're thinking, "Oh, I probably am going to get fired tomorrow," you're going to start to feel anxious or stressed or try to figure out what you did wrong. So what I want you to do is to pause when you notice how your body feels and ask yourself: "Do you really have bad luck? Is something really bad about to happen? Or do you just use that statement because you're always expecting the worst? Did you actually do something wrong? Or are you just judging yourself based on a thought of what you thought was supposed to be perfect?"

5:13 Another way that you might notice that you're using your thoughts or your imagination against yourself is by second-guessing everything or having trouble making decisions. Sometimes this is as simple as struggling to figure out what the heck you want to wear for the day, and I get that. And sometimes it's thinking that you said the wrong thing to somebody and they're mad at you when you're just worried that you said the wrong thing and they didn't think twice about it. You trust your thought more than you're trusting yourself, and that is a really important statement, because you are not your thoughts. So if you are trusting your thought more than yourself and you're second-guessing yourself, it's just a way to keep you from making the wrong decision or being embarrassed. It might be so that you don't look silly and you might wonder what someone else is thinking about your choice. Or you have a thought about what you'll mess up if you make the wrong choice. What will happen if I screw this up?

6:09 And I'm just here to offer that when I go back and I was looking specifically at this episode, or if I would go back and look at some of my blog posts that I made in the past, sometimes I cringe a little bit because I'm like, "What in the world was I thinking when I wrote that? Where was I coming from? What kind of mood was I in?" This showed up today. I actually wrote a newsletter last week and it went live today, and last week was a really tough week for me in my life, and I read it today and I'm like, "Oh my God, did I post that? I shared that? What was I thinking?"

6:38 I started to overthink the post. I almost took it down. I didn't. I left it because I think at some point I'm going to be able to look back at that and say, "I'm okay, so look how far I've come now." So you can choose to think whatever it is that you want about that post, right? Like my post, I was like, "That is terrible." But you can also use it to your benefit to say, "Look what I've learned, look what I learned from that thought" when I get—and I have the benefit of hindsight, right? So if overthinking looks like replaying your past and judging yourself, I want to ask you, "What would happen if you flipped that and said, 'Oh wait, look how much I've grown'?" You can look back at your past and say, "Oh, everything was terrible, maybe, but here you are. What did you learn from that situation?"

7:25 If you can't let go of what you said at work, or when you were out and you bumped into somebody at the grocery store and you made some comment that's flipped into your head, if you can't let go of those things, if you're replaying something that you did that feels embarrassing, or when you think you offended someone, if there's a lot of self-judgment in this kind of thinking and it says things like, "I really should have said something else or done something differently." If you're judging yourself, let's talk about that. Because when you are in a place where you're constantly going back and judging yourself, your brain just starts collecting that as evidence that you're doing something wrong, that you're stuck, you're unable to change, and none of that's actually true. This is what I help people work through when I'm coaching. It's like, "Hey, let's just talk about what you did, what was going on in your life at that moment, and let's give you a little bit of grace and say, 'Hey, you know what, I learned from this.'" So I want to tell you a quick story that I told in the previous episode, because I think it's important.

8:22 Once upon a time, when I was in high school, back when I was very, very anxious and making a lot of impulsive decisions because I was a teenager and that's what teenagers do, I one time had this date for prom, a really, really super nice guy, and I ended up breaking that date at the last minute to go with someone else. I felt guilty about this for years. I mean, judged myself horrifically for being a snotty teenager, and it really—it was probably not the nicest move ever, to the point where I reached—and it really it was probably not the nicest move ever, to the point where I reached out to this person. It was probably like eight years ago now, but the story was like it had plagued my mind for so many years that I actually reached out in my forties to apologize for breaking a date for prom when I was a junior in high school. Good news is that he was very sweet about it and he's like, "Oh my gosh, don't even worry about it." And I was like, "Well, I feel terrible forever."

9:13 So if this sounds like you, if you're still judging yourself, apologize and move on. Because that 30-second apology for me sending a private message on Twitter to say, "Hey, you know what, I'm really sorry that I was an idiot when I was a teenager." I haven't thought about it again until—well, I mean, other than sharing it with you guys on this podcast. So give yourself some grace, ask for forgiveness if you need to, and move on. Because if you're focusing on everything that could go wrong, that is entirely outside of your control, or things that you've done in the past, you have to let those things go. And one of the things that can happen when you feel guilt or shame or anxiousness or embarrassment or anything else is that your brain just keeps reliving those moments over and over, and they start to take up a lot of space in your body, and it's a very unproductive and unfun way to live. So what I'm going to do when we work together is to help you be able to let go, to find what's actually truthful, what's happening right now and to help you find ways to move forward.

11:32 But before we go on to what we need to do instead, let's also talk about intrusive thoughts, because if you are somebody who happens to overthink, a lot of times the thoughts that you think are habits. So for me in the past, those were very anxious thoughts related to my health. For you, they might be related to what other people are thinking about you, about social situations, or just about who you are in general. Those thoughts can become habits. But we also have these other really sneak attack thoughts and these are called intrusive thoughts.

12:02 If you are somebody who struggles with OCD, with anxiety, or you just have a normal human brain that randomly throws out intrusive thoughts, I want you just to be aware that your thoughts do not mean anything. So if you are focusing on other things, let's say you're in the middle of a presentation and all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, God, I'm going to pee my pants." Now, maybe your bladder is full, and you're like, "Oh, wait, I should have gone to the bathroom before I started the presentation." But if you don't even have to go to the bathroom and you suddenly think you're going to pee your pants, that doesn't mean it's true. It just means that you had a sudden thought that came into your head. I've used this example several times where every time, literally every time I chop vegetables, whether I am like cutting up veggies to throw on the grill, or making something that I had to chop up, like what, kero—celery or whatever, I will automatically think, "I wonder if I just chopped my finger off or my hand off." I have no intention of chopping my fingers or my hands off, but I guarantee you that thought will come up every single time. It is a habit.

13:08 So an intrusive thought, even though some of them can be very dark and very scary, are just thoughts and you can choose to ignore them. Now I am not diminishing the severity of intrusive thoughts if you struggle with something as real as OCD. And let me be clear right now, you guys, wanting your bedroom to be clean or your kitchen to be organized is not an OCD thing. And OCD comes from thoughts that come in out of the blue, sometimes very dark, very scary, very opposite of who you are as a person, and they can be very debilitating. However, you don't have to have OCD to have an intrusive thought.

13:47 People have them all the time because brains are crazy. They just think things, sometimes in a protective way, sometimes in a creative way, sometimes in a terrible way. It's the ability to say, "Oh, well, that's one thought," and to move on. That is important. So when I was living with an anxiety disorder, most of my intrusive thoughts happened when I was awake and trying to focus on other things. So maybe I would be in class or trying to work, maybe take care of my kids, and my thoughts would go back to whatever was making me anxious at that time. So in my situation, I was able to shut off those thoughts when I would go to sleep. So when I was really super anxious, I slept a lot.

14:28 Certainly this is not true for everybody. If you happen to have a brain that likes to kick on right at night, before you're just about ready to fall asleep and you're like, "Suddenly I'm laying here and I'm thinking all the time." Let's talk about how we can make that stop, because there is a simple way to be able to redirect your brain away from those thoughts. Whether you lay there and overthink everything that you did at work for the day, something that you said to your kids, or maybe your spouse, maybe you're judging yourself for what you wore, what you did, whatever it is, whatever you're thinking about, what we need to do is we need to be able to take those thoughts and say, "Okay, my brain has a lot to say right now and I don't really have to believe any of this or to give it time." So I have some solutions that I offer in my coaching, but I want to give you just a couple right now that can really help you shut off your brain. One is to just keep a pad of paper next to your bed, not because I want you to get up and journal or take notes, but if you're laying there and you have a thought, something that feels very important and maybe it's even inspired you to get up to, maybe "I should just go to work right now. I should send that email right now. I really should get up and do this thing right now."

15:42 What can help move it out of your head so that you can deal with it in the morning is just to write it down on a piece of paper so that you don't forget. You can say, "Oh, you know what, this feels really important right now. I think I definitely need to remember this." If you write it down, it's there. You can deal with it first thing in the morning if it's still on your mind. But what I've found is that most of the time, those thoughts aren't really as important in the morning as they seem to be right when you're trying to fall asleep. This can also work for something that you're afraid of. So let's say that you do have an overactive, anxious brain. Writing down that scary thought and saying, "You know what? I'm going to deal with this first thing in the morning. This feels very terrifying and I'm supposed to be sleeping. I can't do this right now." Write it down. In the morning, I will look back and say, "I'm not even sure where that thought came from." So just writing it down and moving out of your bed is a huge—a huge game changer for so many people. It's worked for me, it's worked for lots of my coaching clients.

16:39 Another thing that you can do is really just focus on counting—that old idea of counting sheep, which I never understood the sheep part. But if you're like, "Wait, where is she going to go with this?" I don't want you to count your sheep. I want you to count your breath. So what I'm saying by that is I want you to practice just box breathing or to practice a really solid, calming breath. So what we know is that when you exhale longer than you inhale, it resets your nervous system, and if you focus on counting, your brain's not focusing on the thought. So let's say that you breathe in for four seconds, you hold your breath for four seconds, and you exhale for six seconds. So you're one, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four, five, six. Pause and when you need to breathe in again, one, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four, five, six.

17:34 It's taking your brain out of your head, kind of, and it is moving it into something that it can focus on that is very boring and not stirring up a lot of feelings or thoughts inside of you, and it's just getting you to a place where your body starts to relax. And once you're not focusing on those thoughts that are scaring you to death, you could actually go to sleep. So overthinking during the day and overthinking at night aren't really that different. Both of these are ways of thinking that are creative, just in a very negative and fear-based way instead of a productive way. Your brain is just using its magic power of creativity to do its number one job of keeping you safe and alive, and it won't stop as long as you feel or believe something is actually wrong. So you'll just keep thinking on repeat to keep yourself safe, and absolutely none of it is real. So, because you can't stop yourself from thinking by thinking more when you're anxious, the thoughts are on repeat, because you believe them. They make you feel anxious.

18:41 So it's a cycle of thinking and feeling, and thinking and feeling, and I've talked about this so many times. I've talked about that little caveman in your head before in previous episodes and about how that caveman part of your brain responds to every single thought and feeling that you have and that it thinks it's dangerous. And because this part of your brain only knows how to react and to keep you alive, it doesn't necessarily understand that your thoughts aren't true, it just assumes that they are. It dumps a bunch of adrenaline and cortisol into your system so that you can outrun, outfight, stay quiet, and hide, and those hormones do all of the work to make your body prepare to fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. So this is when you start to notice that your muscles tense up, whether it's your jaw, your shoulders, or anywhere else. You might notice that your heart is beating faster. It makes your breathing more shallow, it makes your brain fuzzy, it makes your pupils dilate, it makes you feel more anxious, which causes you to think more. So what we want to be able to do is we want to be able to break that cycle of thinking and feeling.

19:46 And when you are an overthinker, whether you are thinking thoughts that are stressing you out or making you anxious, what I help you do when I work with you is to use your body as the clue to check your thoughts. Now, that doesn't mean stop your thoughts, right? We aren't trying to stop our thoughts. In fact, the more attention you give your thoughts, the more you're going to think. Instead, we want to go back in and say, "How do I feel right now?" "Wow, I feel really stressed, I feel really anxious," which means, "All of these thoughts that I have, I'm just not allowed to believe them." Right now, it's okay that they're there, and when we give them permission to be there, suddenly they're less important. We don't have to solve for them. We just recognize that the thought is there and I don't really have to do anything with it. I just have to say, "Oh, well, yeah, that's one thought."

20:43 So what we want to do is break that cycle so that when you stop responding to the thoughts, that your body just goes ahead and processes that adrenaline and it starts to go down and suddenly your body feels back to normal. And when your body goes back to normal, you stop thinking because there's nothing to solve for anymore. I want you to remember that you aren't going to outthink your anxiety or your stress and, as a matter of fact, it's harder to think when you're in that place. So instead of trying to think your way out of a thought, it's better just to say, "Okay, there it is, I'm just going to breathe for a few minutes," and as soon as your body calms down, your thoughts will switch.

21:20 And now let me be honest here about something I know that some of you are like, "But, Megan, I don't think you understand that I'm actually biologically anxious." So, yes and—right? Yes, I know there are honest-to-God biological reasons that you feel anxious. If you are my age, if you are in your 40s or your 50s and you are going through perimenopause, your hormones are probably jacked up and you probably do have more cortisol and feel more anxious. If you have lived through some big-time, scary stuff, if you are in the middle of a very stressful or anxiety-provoking period of time during your life, all of these things will make you naturally feel anxious. I get it. So we just need to talk about the fact that there are actual things going on that can make you feel anxious, and our thoughts also can make us feel anxious when we are just projecting what we think should be happening, what we are actually afraid is happening. But none of those things are necessarily true.

22:23 Okay, so to stop thinking, you have to learn how to feel uncomfortable and recognize that your thoughts are coming from that feeling of an uncomfortable body. So it isn't a problem that you have to solve. So this is how we do it. This is how I help you. In this process, I teach my clients the same process I use every time my brain wants to go down the rabbit hole because, yeah, it still does. I'm a human, so I do this, and I want you to just understand that. I imagine that this is what people who aren't necessarily wired to feel anxious all the time do anyway, without even having to think through it. You just might have to pause and think a little bit. So this is the process that's changed how I think and how I live my life, and it's done the same thing for the people that I coach.

23:08 Pay attention, because this is the stuff that makes coaching the best investment of your time and money to help you stop overthinking. You don't need to think more. You don't need to unpack all of the time. If you're not dealing with serious trauma, you probably don't need to talk through the things that are going on inside your head. The first thing you have to do, though, is you have to know your body. You know what you feel like and what your body does when it's anxious.

23:32 You may not have paid that much attention to the feeling before, because it feels threatening and it's something that's really intolerable to you, but it's the exact opposite. Your body's trying to protect you. It's trying to prepare you to stay safe. So get to know that feeling intimately. It is your red flag, it is your guard dog, it is your deepest love and protection that is trying to keep you safe. Listen to what that feeling is telling you. I mean, really just let it be there, breathe, and listen—not with your ears, though, not to the thoughts, don't think about it—just to the feeling. What is the feeling? What is the emotion that you feel? This is such an important and powerful coaching moment. I've had clients burst into tears and others who have just started cracking up.

24:19 When they sink into that feeling and get super honest about what they're afraid of, it doesn't always happen in an instant. Sometimes it gets stuck and you tell me, "I don't know, I don't know." It's only because you've been avoiding those thoughts for so long and trying to push away that feeling. So sometimes it takes some coaxing to get it out. But when the truth comes out and you actually feel the real emotion, that is gold, my friend. So once you know what you're feeling and you're really afraid of, then you've opened the door to the truth instead of the scary stories that have been rolling through your head.

24:52 The feeling isn't a problem anymore because it's not dangerous. You learn to trust yourself, one tiny change at a time, so that you can start choosing your thoughts instead of believing every problem that you've created, to figure out what is so wrong and why you feel the way that you feel. And when this happens, when the problem isn't actually a problem anymore and when the thought isn't a problem to solve, but only a feeling or maybe a memory or a fear or a should that may or may not be true, you don't give it the attention. You aren't spending your energy rolling around in this pool of anxiety, worrying about what's wrong or what you messed up or what you should have done or what you should do, and your whole body benefits from it. Actually, your whole life benefits from this. You start to fall asleep at night instead of laying there wide awake wondering what in the world you're going to do to solve this problem that doesn't exist. You can focus on your work or on your family and be really present.

25:53 You're a more creative thinker because you're not anxious. When you're anxious, the thinking part of your brain doesn't actually work anyway. So that's another great reason to stop trying to think your way out of it, right? You'll notice that suddenly, like, "I've had a headache forever and I haven't had a headache in a while, like it's gone." My body—I have so much more energy. I'm not snapping on my spouse or my coworker or my kids very much anymore. I actually have more patience and you start to notice that your food isn't giving you a stomachache and suddenly you feel really confident when you're like, "I don't know, I used to think I was terrible at this, but it turns out I'm actually pretty good at it." You're not living for everybody else because you're afraid of what they think or afraid of what will happen.

26:43 So I'm always blown away when I'm working with someone and they have all these reasons why they can't stop. "You don't understand, Megan, I just can't stop thinking," they can't do it, and this sometimes goes on for a few weeks. But then suddenly something clicks and they start showing up and casually telling me that they decided to join a gym, or they decided to ask for a raise or a promotion, and "You know what? Oh, yeah, I asked for a promotion and I got it," and they were like, "Oh no, it really wasn't that big of a deal." Hold up for one second and say that one more time, because it wasn't that long ago that they were telling me how they just could not talk to their boss because they thought that their boss was going to fire them, or, "You know what? I just didn't ever think I could do this," and suddenly it's not even a big deal, and it's just because they learned how to stop overthinking.

27:32 This is 100% possible for you, my friend, and so if you want to learn more about how you can work with me, you can go to the show notes and go to my website. It's just my name, it is megandevito.com. You go to the "Work with Me" tab and that's a great way to talk about coaching. Now, if you're not quite ready for coaching, that's okay, because I have a free offer that I give to people just to learn more about where they need to hold boundaries, where they're overthinking, and to find what's going on in their life. It is an audit, and I know some people are like, "Audit? With taxes? Is this scary? Is this intense?" Not at all.

28:05 So the Boundaries and Balance audit is just a great way for you to look at seven different areas of your life. Why seven? Because when one thing is out of balance, it throws everything else off too. So what we can do in just 30 to 45 minutes is to say, "Tell me about your relationships, tell me about your job, tell me about your nutrition and your health, tell me about what you like to do for fun, how's your family life, how's your creative brain going, how's your spirituality?" All these different areas. And you're going to rank them on a scale of one to 10. And I'm going to say, "Oh, yeah, seven. Why is it a seven?" I'm just going to listen to what you have to say and I'm going to ask you questions about, "Well, tell me more about what that's like for you. What if it wasn't like that? What would it be like if it were a 10?"

28:47 And when you do that, you're going to start noticing the areas of your life that need some attention. They need a little love, they need a little adjusting, and you'll have a step forward. You'll say, "Gosh, I had no idea that I was really craving more creativity in my life. You know what I used to love to do, like fancy calligraphy. I used to do calligraphy all the time and I loved it." I haven't done that in a long time. Ta-da, you have a simple answer. That's something that you can make time for. So I'm going to show you the areas that need some attention. Now,

29:16 if you decide that you want support and help with that, we can talk about what coaching is like then. And if you're like, "Oh, you know what, I know exactly what I need to do," I'm going to cheer for you and say, "Go, do it." It's going to make your entire life better, and when I say your entire life, I mean you're going to sleep better, your relationships are going to be better, you're going to have more energy. You're not going to have as many headaches and muscle aches. You're going to have more creative thinking, more confidence, and all of those things.

29:42 This is all available, and the audit for right now, when I'm recording this, it is still free. So take me up on that offer. You're going to love it. Like I've had nothing but amazing feedback, and I would love to talk with you more about what your life is like and get to know you better.

29:57 So if you know an overthinker, send them this episode. Maybe tag them if you're watching this on YouTube. Say, "Oh my gosh, you guys have to." I always appreciate all of the likes and follows and the subscribes that you guys give me. It is so helpful. It helps other people, whether you are listening to the audio version on a podcast or watching the video. It helps them get the help that they need, because algorithms and shares and all those things—unfortunately, that's the age that we live in right now, so I am truly appreciative of all of your support and all of the shares that you guys give me.

30:28 I hope this was helpful for you and I hope that you will check back again next week. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Take care.

Hey, before you go, I just want to say thanks for hanging out with me on More Than Anxiety. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review so more people can find it too. And if you're ready to see what's going well, so you can celebrate more what's not working or what's keeping you stuck, and have a focused, intentional step forward, join me for a Boundaries and Balance audit. You'll learn all about the audit and choose a time that works best for you at megandevito.com. Just head to the show notes, click the link, and let's talk. I can't wait to connect with you soon.