More Than Anxiety

Ep 143 - Entrepreneurial Mom Burnout: Finding Rest & Redefining Success

• Megan Devito • Episode 143

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In this episode of More Than Anxiety Megan Devito is talking with Gabs Hayes, an entrepreneurial mom of three and business coach, as she shares her personal journey through a challenging season of depression.

Host Megan Devito and Gabs discuss prioritizing mental health, offering a refreshing perspective on rest, recovery, and redefining success.

You'll Learn:

  • Why taking time for yourself, even when running a business, is not just okay, but essential for long-term well-being.
  • How to recognize the signs of overwhelm and depression, and take proactive steps to slow the spiral.
  • The importance of self-awareness and setting boundaries to prevent burnout, especially for ambitious women and entrepreneurs.
  • Why normalizing mental health days for ourselves and our children is vital for growing resilience.
  • Practical insights on separating your identity from your productivity and living a life that truly serves you.

If you've ever felt guilty for needing a break or wondered how to navigate the ups and downs of life as an entrepreneurial woman, this episode brings validation, actionable insights, and a reminder that your worth isn't tied to your constant output. 


Find Gabs Hayes at gabshayes.com where she offers a free AI tool to help you plan your week in five minutes, prioritizing what matters most to you - even if that's rest. Check out her podcast Overwhelmed And Over It.


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Megan Devito:

No, I saw your post that you were like I'm taking some time. Good for you.

Gabs Hayes:

I think that's necessary, yeah, and it's like so hard because I think you know, when you run your own business, you you know you can do that, but like you also think of all of the reasons you shouldn't. But I'm like all I want is my bed, so that's all I'm going to do. I'm going to spend some time in my bed for a little bit.

Megan Devito:

You know what that sounds like exactly the best thing you can do to get you over the hump. Hey there, welcome to the More Than Anxiety podcast. I'm Megan Devito and I help ambitious women break out of the anxiety spiral so they can stop overthinking and actually enjoy life. This podcast is all about real talk, simple shifts and light bulb moments that'll change the way you think, feel and show up for yourself and everybody else in your life too. You'll get straight up truth, actionable steps and the inspiration to finally break free from the stress and second guessing. Let's get to it.

Megan Devito:

I don't know. I just feel like when you get to the point where you only want your bed, that means you absolutely just need to like. If you don't take that time to be in your bed, it's like a slippery slope, right.

Gabs Hayes:

And that's what I'm like, trying to be proud of myself, right? Is that? Like old me would have felt this and I would have just kept pushing and I would have kept going. And so I'm like, while I am, you know, there's still obviously a little bit of guilt for being in bed and whatever, but not like it used to be. And my belief is that, like, if I do this for like a week or so, I'll come back and I'll be fine, whereas before I would just keep going and then it would be months where I would be, you know, all messed up. So, yeah, so I'm Gabs Hayes, I am an entrepreneurial mom of three and I am married to my favorite human being in the entire world, and it's taken me lots of years to get to the point where I can say that, and I work with early stage entrepreneurs to learn how to build a business and a life without running themselves in the ground. Which is funny that we're going to talk about me being in bed, but it really ties into the work that I do, which is giving yourself permission for your journey to look the way your journey wants to and needs to look, instead of what we think it should look like based upon outside forces.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, it's so funny. I just was checking my email before I got on this call with you and I got an email from another coach who I was in a mastermind with her and I've listened to her podcast for years and she's one of those coaches where you, you see what she's doing and you're like, yeah, I want to be her when I grow up. Right, like I'm older than her, I'm watching her, I'm like I hope that I'm her when I grow up how did she do that? Where you see these other people and you're like that's the way it's supposed to be. So we have this idea of what it's supposed to be, but nobody does it the same way and nobody has the same timeline and we're all doing different things. So what, what were you doing? Like, what do you feel, like made bed seem necessary right now, because I think we all get to that point?

Gabs Hayes:

Yeah, um, I think it helps to give some context here that I do have, you know, major depressive disorder, and I've had it for as far back as I can remember. I'm also someone who attempts to live a life that I don't need to rely on medication and try to use the boundaries that I've created in life to set myself up where it's a part of who I am, but it doesn't take over my life. But I think the reality is and I had to learn this last year is that there are times where you do have to give more to yourself, and it's okay that those seasons come and go. And so, for me, I've got some heavy decisions that are hanging around that I would have liked to have already made the choice and moved on from, but I don't feel like I have all the right pieces of the puzzle just yet, so I haven't been able to make those decisions. Some of them relate to my business and what I'm doing from a business aspect. Some of them relate to personal aspects of some investments that we have and what we're going to do with those. And listen, money is my trigger. It always has been, and so I've got some big money decisions hanging out and I think the weight of them is just catching up to me.

Gabs Hayes:

And I'm someone who can work almost 24 hours a day, right, like I just love my work, I love being creative, I love having an outlet. And I started noticing last week that I was like fuck, I got to go sit at that desk, I have to go open. And it was that like I have to feeling that I need to clue into that Right, and so I leaned in and I was like you know what? I think my depression is coming hot and heavy at the moment. I think it's just that season, and this time around for the first time ever, Megan. So I'm like actually really proud that we're even talking about this right away.

Gabs Hayes:

I said to my husband my mental health is not doing so hot right now. I'm going to go back on my medicine, I'm going to like cancel anything that's non-essential and I'm going to like take it real easy for a while. So, like the kids are going to have to navigate. They're getting older, they can feed themselves pop tarts for breakfast or whatever, but like I need more time alone and I need more time not producing, and I even like I put my phone away for the weekend, like I didn't even look at my phone for like 48 hours. Um, and you know, I I feel good, I I am definitely still in the like my bed is where I want to be phase and I'm doing that, um. But also I can feel like the the down spiral is not like spiraling so fast, right, like I can feel it kind of moving its way through.

Gabs Hayes:

So it's a good reminder that, like, prioritizing what you need is worth it.

Megan Devito:

First, I would like, if I could jump through the computer and like high five and hug you and like, tuck you in right now, I would, because good for you. But also I think that for people who are listening, because so much of what I've talked about and this podcast has really evolved over time I mean it started out talking so much about anxiety, anxiety, anxiety, and I think that there's so many facets to that, but depression and anxiety are so tightly linked, whereas I've never had the major depressive part but I've had the major anxiety part. And I just want for anybody who's listening to listen to what Gabs is saying right now. Like, ladies and gentlemen, this is recovery, right? Like, this is the place where you're like, yeah, sometimes I feel like this and I can see it coming and I know how to get a handle on it. So, yes, medication, yes, rest, yes. Saying like, hey, here I am, this is what happens sometimes, and that you said I can slow the spiral. That is enormous progress for people who think that it's. I think there's this, like this idea out there that people are like and suddenly it's going to magically go away forever and I'm like, maybe.

Gabs Hayes:

Yeah, I used to definitely feel that way. I mean, I have a child with a chronic illness too, and so I used between her, her issues and then mine. I think I was always waiting for, like the thing that was going to make it go away, right, Was it acupuncture was finally going to fix it, or was it medicine was finally going to fix it? Or, you know, changing our diet or whatever. Like I was always waiting for the thing.

Gabs Hayes:

And it's interesting because she is sick right now as we're recording this, which is her trigger for her illness, and so I think there is an actual reason that I'm in this slow it down, take it easy, because I can just be in bed with her too, because that's what she needs right now also, whereas old me would have felt like I had to keep going and be pumping her full of medicine and just praying that we don't have to go back to the hospital.

Gabs Hayes:

And it was just I feel this calm inside of me even going through this with her right now, because normally her trigger is a trigger for me, and so, yeah, it's is a trigger for me, and so, yeah, it's very eyeopening to look at your life and whether it's depression, anxiety, hers is asthma and she has autoimmune disease. Like, whatever your thing is, there is a lot of power in looking at it and saying it is a part of me, it's not just going to heal, it's not just going to go away, but I do have control over how deeply it takes me off course or how deeply it alters my life. And this is the first time I've ever done this. I mean, I can think back.

Gabs Hayes:

I think I was diagnosed with depression at seven or eight, so I mean we're talking about almost 30 years of this and this is the first time that I saw it, I recognized it and I did something about it, like all within the same day, and yeah, I'm very proud of that.

Megan Devito:

Yes, I'm very proud of you Because it does feel. I mean, I know that. I mean we can question ourselves on that right, like oh, that's not, that's not it. Or or on the opposite extreme. I mean maybe this is more of an anxiety thing where, when you get to a place where you're like, oh no, now what would I have to stop it I have to make it stop, as opposed to saying, okay, yeah, this is what it is, and I know I need to take care of myself and I know I need to slow down. And slowing down, I don't know about you, slowing down for me feels really, really uncomfortable, like, yeah, what if I slow down too much?

Gabs Hayes:

You know it's interesting, Megan. So I'm I'm writing my first book. Uh, all around like just breaking up with the "shoulds, right and giving up everything that we thought we had to have in order to have the life we want. Yeah, and this is a huge part of it, that it is possible. It is possible that I may decide I need to be in bed for three, four weeks and guess what? My business will take a massive hit because of that. Um, because of my business is just in a place where I am still a huge part of it.

Gabs Hayes:

But I also think that's part of the maturity and how you handle your life scenarios and your life situations, which is but the what, if, what's worse, being in a spiral for six, seven months where I hate every day, or letting myself slow down for three weeks and I come back stronger than I was before. I mean, there is, there's definitely risk to that. I don't. I don't want to negate that by any means, but I think at the other, on the other flip side of it, you're having to decide which risk is heavier, which risk has longer term effects in your life, which one takes you further from the life you actually want to live and at the end of the day, I want to live a slower paced life anyway, so maybe this is just my chance to experience it.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, it's like trying on new shoes. See what this feels like for a little bit. Yeah, and I don't know. We work with very similar population of people. I mean, I feel like both of us are dealing with, we're talking about overwhelm, we're talking about perfectionism and boundaries and all of that stuff. So I feel like the people that you speak to and the people that I speak to are kind of one in the same, and one of the things I hear as well that's just who I am, and I feel like sometimes people will take on tendencies or bad habits that we have Like when you said the shoulds as part of their personality, and I'm like tell me more about how that's who you are, as opposed to whatever else. So I mean, and I think, even when we talk about whether I'm talking about anxiety and you're talking about depression, it's not who we are, it's just something like how do you separate that from your personality? Or like, how do you explain that to people? Explain it differently than me, because I feel like at some point everybody has to hear it their way, right?

Gabs Hayes:

ee a really powerful question and I think this is the first time I'm even trying to navigate that thought, because I had always hid this from my kids as much as I possibly could. December of last year I had an episode where they no longer could be hidden from this, and so now I'm being much more open. And you know, we kind of have this thing we check in with each other every morning, right, how was your sleep? How was your night, are you feeling good this morning? Blah, blah, blah. We check in with each other every morning, right, how was your sleep, how was your night, are you feeling good this morning? Blah, blah, blah. And you know, this time around I would say to them I'm not doing so hot, I'm not feeling so great, my mind is feeling a little foggy at the moment. Mommy just needs like a lot of extra rest. Uh, but of course I think, added to it as a mom, right, I worry. Are they going to? Now that I'm talking about it? Is that going to be their memory? It's mom was in bed and mom was not all there. Mom was sleeping a lot, whatever it may be.

Gabs Hayes:

But then I think about if they end up having depression or anxiety or something in their life that they need to take care of themselves. I want them to be able to do that without feeling guilty or having fears about doing that, and so I tend to separate it in the sense that it is a part of who I am for sure, but it doesn't alter my values.

Gabs Hayes:

It doesn't alter how I show up in this world, and my parenting philosophy has always been set them up to be successful adults, and that means giving them the tools and the resources that they need to navigate their own life, and even if it's just a breakup with your college partner or a job that you didn't land, that you really wanted, we're all going to have these seasons where we just want our bed, we just want to be cozy in our comfortable place, and you want to do that guilt-free, and most of us don't, because we do worry about what other people think or what could go wrong if we just took care of ourselves for a minute, and I think there's a lot of power in the pause to just pause for a second. Take care of what's right in front of you, and then you can show up differently and better the next time you come back around.

Megan Devito:

And normalizing it. It's such a we're in such this sweet spot right now. I mean looking at my life you're so much younger than me, but looking back at my life and how much, uh, like, how far I've seen us progress and like it's okay to take care of yourself. It's okay to admit that like whoa, hey, I'm not, I'm not going to do this, I'm going to slow down or I'm going to really take care of myself, as opposed to, like, rubbing a little dirt on it and getting back out there.

Megan Devito:

That's so. That's such a big deal and I love it that you, as a mom, are showing your kids how to do it. I love it that kids are being taught a little bit more that, like, hey, having mental health is as important as making sure that you aren't going to school with the flu, right? Like, if you're sick, you're sick and we it's just not separated as much and I think that's so important. We teach, you know, we teach little kids that bears hibernate in the winter, but we don't talk about people taking time to rest, we don't talk about how important that is, and we're finally getting to a point where we're like, hey, that's good.

Gabs Hayes:

Yeah, and you know, it's funny because my kids just got out of school too, and so my husband and I were having this conversation and I was like I get so annoyed with the what do they call it? The perfect attendance award. I get so annoyed with that and like what are we celebrating?

Megan Devito:

Nothing.

Gabs Hayes:

If my eight-year-old is just not having a great day or she just is not feeling great, like I don't want to force her to go to school, right, or if my teenager is feeling very overwhelmed with all of the things and changes going on in his body and in his life, like I want to give him time and space to process those Um and like don't get me wrong, I'm an overworker by nature. So like of course, I'm going to get back to it and I'm going to come back roaring and all of those things and I expect that of my kids too. Is that, like the pause is to come back more whole. The pause is to come back more fulfilled. It's not to be a permanent thing, and so I think that's another side of this coin. Are you just retreating and taking a break because you don't have the tools, you don't have the resources and you don't know what you need? And I think that's a very different conversation, rather than seeing the pause as part of your tools and your resources.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, it's so funny that you brought up that story about perfect attendance. I remember being in high school I was probably a freshman or sophomore in high school and we had this big honors convocation during the middle of the day where everybody had to go to the gym and one of the awards was perfect attendance. And there was a guy who was he was senior and I've known him for years and years and I remember sitting in the gym and he had never missed a day of school from kindergarten through his senior year. And I remember thinking that is the saddest thing I've ever heard. I'm like, oh, I know we're supposed to be like, oh, good job. And I'm like, oh, like you didn't even leave early like one day for vacation one day? No, never. And I mean, and, but we did.

Megan Devito:

We were taught that like our value was in how much we could produce and how much we got done. And I think especially for guys and I see this so much with my husband, but also just men in general like, hey, your value comes from your work, yeah, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, I mean it's, it's interesting.

Gabs Hayes:

And so I think you know, as you look back right, you start to unpack some of this stuff and you're like some of these things were not mine.

Gabs Hayes:

I didn't choose to be go, go, go all the time. I didn't choose to be a high producer. I didn't choose, you know, to assign my worth to these things. But it is on us, at this stage of our life, to decide which one of those things that you might've accidentally picked up you do you want to continue and for us to decide which ones actually support the life that we want. Because at the end of the day, you absolutely get to design and build the life that you want and there is no one who gets to take that away from you. But it takes a lot of awareness, it takes a lot of asking yourself hard questions and making hard decisions, and I think, when we talk about the sense of feeling that pressure from the outside world, it can be really hard to separate pressure from the outside world versus pressure you've put on yourself because you've just accepted those identities as your own.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, and so Gabs and I met on LinkedIn and I think that are you connected with Carrie Lynn Shaw as well? I'm not sure. Okay, so she had a post today and I think there's a. I think that like differentiating between outside pressure but also outside encouragement, because she had a post today and I see these sometimes on social media where, like, everything is shifting. Can you feel it? And I'm like I don't know maybe what's it feel like, but she it was so funny that she had this. She's like can you feel that people are slowing down and really focusing in like doing less but finding exactly where they need to be? And it's funny.

Megan Devito:

I went through a period back in October where I was kind of like screw it, I'm throwing everything in the trash. And I'm going to decide what I add back in, uh? And I started doing that again last month where I'm like, nope, this isn't working for me. I tried it for six months. It's time to pause again and I think sometimes, when we don't give ourself that pause, we do get to a place where it feels like pressure, where it feels like we're just producing to produce, and sometimes, when that happens, our brain and our body throws a monkey wrench in there to say I said slow down, and you're listening to it, and that I mean for you. Unfortunately, right now, I hate it that you're just feeling yuck. And I think there's great things on the other side of it. I think that giving yourself that permission to say okay, yeah, that was hard and this is what I'm going to add back and maybe this is what I'm not.

Gabs Hayes:

Yeah, and you know, it's interesting because I caught it soon enough that I still feel like I'm somewhat in my right mind, right, so I feel like I can do some of this reflection, and part of that is, um, I I recognize now, looking back, and of course in the moment I didn't, but I started getting nervous about business again, and I started working a lot of extra hours and I started having all of these ideas and then the ideas were overflowing and then I couldn't do anything with them because I had too many, and so it was like now I can look at it. I'm like, okay, wait, that overwhelmed bubble was growing, growing, growing, and I kept trying to keep up with it and I kept trying to work. And so now, yeah, it's like an interesting thing. I'm like, okay, when I kind of come back to a full schedule, what's that schedule going to be now? Because the getting up to take meetings during the day and then the working at night when everyone was in bed really tended to catch up to me. And again you get to a point where you're like I think I'm just spinning my wheels, I'm not actually taking positive traction anywhere, and that's a huge thing. That I teach people is like anywhere, and that's a huge thing. That I teach people is like I'd rather you do nothing than do everything and go nowhere. And so I gotta I have to check myself right and have that same conversation with myself.

Gabs Hayes:

Yeah, great, you were sending three emails a week and you know, 45 social media posts a week or like. Well, you know, I had these like crazy numbers. Yeah, you were doing all the things, but did it feel good? Did it make progress? Did it support you in the way you wanted to go? And if not, it's okay, and I think you mentioned it just as we got started, right. But I'm known for my brand on LinkedIn. That's where I have chosen to build my business, where I've chosen to build my brand. No-transcript that and is like, actually, I'm shutting this thing down for a couple of weeks and I'm going to go breathe it was well worth putting it out there.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, yeah, and I think that slowness, what you said, I don't think I ever thought about my own thoughts this way before. But what you said about getting to the place where you had so many ideas coming so fast, like fast and furious ideas, that it started to feel overwhelming, like I get an idea and then it's gone before I can even grab ahold of it, and then I have another idea. I do get that way and I'm always like maybe I have ADHD, but it's not. It definitely is tied to increased, whether it's anxiety or overwhelm or anything else. For me it's like oh wait, I'm trying too hard and I don't know. I don't think I ever recognized it as that. I always was frustrated that I couldn't hang on to the ideas. So thank you for that, because it's very frustrating, isn't it?

Megan Devito:

This is why I have a notepad in my shower.

Gabs Hayes:

Yeah, I mean it really is. And, like I, I have had plenty of times where I'm like, maybe I'm just not caught out to run a business, because if I had a job I would just follow the process and you know I'd bring some ideas, but like it wouldn't be on me to figure it all out. Um, and so, yeah, when I get in these seasons where, like I just I can't keep up and it's funny because I'll get a good system that works for me Like I love this notebook in the shower, right, and I'll get a good system that works for me and then three, four months later it doesn't work anymore. And it's like, because I got myself in this, you know the ideas are just flying. And I think it's because, yeah, we're like we're trying to solve so many problems and we're not slowing down to spend time with it.

Gabs Hayes:

And it can. It can be super overwhelming, it can be very anxiety producing. And, you know, I wish, like we were talking about earlier, like I wish there was just a like magic button You'd push it, and you're like, okay, I don't need to go down that route anymore. Um, but I also fully believe that every time, every time we lean in sooner and say I'm not at my best, I'm not taking care of myself the best, and we do something about it. I do think it's the universe's way of being like are you ready for what's next?

Megan Devito:

Oh, yeah, yeah, I think you're right, it's growth and there's a fine line, I guess, between having no ideas and a thousand ideas all at the same time, and as soon as you cross that line from I've got nothing to what am I supposed to do all of that? I mean, we got to figure out how to ride that line, and sometimes that's just correcting back right, just like the tiniest correction, like oh, those were, that was a lot. If I, if I always tell myself if it's a good idea, it'll come back to me, and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't, but I have to take it to mean like that wasn't it.

Gabs Hayes:

Right, yeah, I really appreciate that, Megan, because I've had to lean into that a lot, because I was that person who, like, when the ideas would come at 2 am, I was getting up and like going to write them all down yeah, because I was so afraid of losing them.

Megan Devito:

People tell you to keep a notepad next to your bed. I'm like all night writing things down.

Gabs Hayes:

Yeah Well, and that's what happens is, once I start, I cannot stop, and so I've even had to do the same where I'm like, if it's the idea that I'm meant to go after, it will come back to me. And then I've also given myself some permission to say maybe it was just a thought that my subconscious needed to process.

Gabs Hayes:

And it doesn't mean I need to do something with it. But what I am finding is, you know, I've been about a year since I've been more, more intentional around, like not getting up but letting the thoughts just come. I do see these ideas coming back. I do see I will have a new version of it and then when I start writing kind of thoughts and details out, I'm like oh wait, that actually relates to something I had thought about. So it is interesting, you know, you do start to see that full circle come around. But again it's that are you checking yourself enough to force yourself to like not do all the things and to allow yourself to slow down a bit, because, also, even if you have the greatest idea in the world, if you don't have clear thoughts and you don't have space to do something with it, even if you can bring it to the world, that's not going to be the impact it was supposed to be, because it's going to come out with this energy of cluttered and rush and chaos, and so I try to remind myself of that as well. Is that like? I need to be in a clear mind to deliver good value and to deliver good impact, and so it's important, not just for me, but for my customers and my clients, that I am taking this time so that I can show up better for them, but also show up better for myself.

Megan Devito:

re love that. I think that, yeah, that's kind of mic drop. Yeah, it's important. It's important. You guys, it's okay for you to take time and I know that you, if you were listening. In the States we don't get as much time maybe as we need, but take it when you can, all right. When you are feeling better and when people want to connect with you, tell them where to find you.

Gabs Hayes:

Yeah, so easiest way is my website, gabshayes. com, and I have four of these kind of moments, too, of like when you've got more on your plate than you have time and you're not really sure what to do with all of it. What's the highest priority? I do have a free AI tool there that will help you plan your week in five minutes, so that way you don't have to stress about. You know what you're doing and what needs to get done, and it's very helpful like even in this season for me because it will ask you what's your number one priority for this week, and so my number one priority this week is rest, and so my calendar is going to reflect that. So that's the best way, and I also have a podcast called Overwhelmed and Over it that Megan was also on and her episode will be coming out soon yeah.

Megan Devito:

And this one will come out. It's going to be a bit in the summer, but that's okay Because hopefully, by the time it comes out, you are like back, feeling great and ready to roll again. So thank you, thank you, I'm gonna let you get back to your bed.

Gabs Hayes:

Thanks, Megan.

Megan Devito:

You're welcome. It was so good to talk with you. Hey, before you go, I just want to say thanks for hanging out with me on More Than Anxiety. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review so more people can find it too, and if you're ready to see what's going well, so you can celebrate more what's not working or what's keeping you stuck, and have a focused, intentional step forward, join me for a boundaries and balance audit. You'll learn all about the audit and choose a time that works best for you at megandevitocom. Just head to the show notes, click the link and let's talk. I can't wait to connect with you soon.