Ep 113 - Overcome Financial Anxiety: Pamela H Reed's Guide to Wealth

Feeling overwhelmed by financial stress and anxiety? Join me in this week's episode as I interview Pamela H Reed, a certified Christian life coach and financial strategist. Learn practical, faith-based strategies to achieve financial freedom and break free from limiting beliefs.

Key Takeaways:

• The power of mindset: Understand how negative beliefs and emotions can hinder your financial progress.
• The importance of financial literacy: Learn the basics of budgeting, saving, and investing to take control of your finances.
• Overcoming financial shame and guilt: Discover how to let go of self-judgment and embrace a positive mindset towards money.
• Setting realistic financial goals: Learn how to define your financial vision and create a personalized plan to achieve it.
• The role of faith in financial freedom: Explore how faith can provide guidance, motivation, and peace of mind on your financial journey.

Listen now to gain valuable insights, practical tips, and the inspiration you need to achieve lasting financial freedom.

You can also listen to the episode I recorded with Pam on her podcast at HERE.
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Chapters

• 1:18 Financial Freedom and Overcoming Shame
• 14:21 Faith, Wealth, and Action
• 22:01 Financial Clarity and Goal Setting
• 25:58 Financial Freedom for Adults Over 40
• 29:21 Emotional Spending and Financial Habits
• 39:36 Financial Wellness Support and Inspiration

Transcript

Megan Devito: 1:18

Welcome to the More Than Anxiety Podcast. I'm Megan Deito and I help ambitious women break out of the anxiety cycle that keeps them frustrated and stuck. Get ready for a lighthearted approach that will change what you think, how you feel and what you believe about yourself. This podcast is full of simple steps, a lot of truth talk and inspiration to take action. So you walk away feeling confident, calm and inspiration to take action. So you walk away feeling confident, calm and ready to live. Let's get to it. You are listening to episode 113 of the More Than Anxiety podcast.

Megan Devito: 1:48

This week, I'm going to introduce you to Pamela H Reed. She is a certified Christian life coach and financial strategist dedicated to helping people reach their goals and live their best lives. With years of experience in government service and a passion for wealth building through real estate and stock investing, Pam empowers individuals to overcome financial obstacles and create lasting wealth. As the host of the Confident Steps to Financial Freedoms podcast, she shares practical, faith-based strategies for living a purpose-driven and financially independent life. Pam's mission is to guide Christian professionals not only in making money but in growing and sustaining their wealth, reminding them that they have the power to build true financial freedom. I had the pleasure of interviewing Pam on her podcast just a couple of weeks ago, so I will make sure to include that episode in the show notes. She's such a sweetheart, she is a wealth of knowledge and she is going to do a wonderful job of calming your anxiety about having wealth in the future and having wealth now. Enjoy the episode. Thank you, Pam, so much for joining me. Can you introduce yourself to everyone?

Pamela H Reed: 2:58

Yes, yes, yes. Well, thank you so much, Megan, for having me. I'm so happy to be here to share a little bit about financial freedom. It truly is a journey that many I believe most people would say they're on that journey. They might not have declared it per se, but most of us want to be free financially and we well, many of us see freedom in different ways, so that freedom can look different ways for different people.

Pamela H Reed: 3:25

But I desire for women, men, Christians in particular have been my segment that I focused on to be financially free. You know, we give so much of ourselves to our jobs and our businesses and the different things we do, and the whole goal most of the time is just to have a better life, to be able to do the things we want to do, be able to have the things we want to have. But you know you can find yourself just going, and going, and going, and you know you, just while you've never declared it or whatever, you do want to get to the place where you're kind of at, a place where you are just free to do what you want to do and, um, I just desire to help people get to that space. That space where they can do what they want to do. Ultimately for the way I teach financial freedom, it means being able to reclaim your time to do the things you want to do, to live the life you want to live. And of course, we know it takes money to do that, so therein comes the finance piece. So that's what I'm about.

Pamela H Reed: 4:37

My mission is to help people to get to that place where they can have options in their life. They don't have to just do what they have to do. I got to do what I got to do. We always hear people say got to do what I got to do. So that usually means I'm getting up, I'm going to work, I'm working on my business, I'm doing what I have to do to live the life I want to live. But we can be strategic about this and we can be more intentional about this to make sure that we get to live that life while we're here on earth in the flesh.

Megan Devito: 5:09

I love that you mentioned that it is different for everyone, and I think that so often we look at somebody and we think, well, do I want this or do I want that? Or we think that we're supposed to have the same level of income or the same desires that somebody else has, but to just recognize that really what we want, I think whether we're coaching somebody on stress and anxiety, or whether you're coaching someone on financial freedom, we all want the same, don't we?

Pamela H Reed: 5:40

Yes, we do. Yes, we all want the same thing, right, like you said, whether it's to be free from anxiety or, you know, financially free. It's an element of freedom that people desire, you know, and so we're looking forward and we, as coaches, we can help come in and try to help help people get free. You know, with anxiety I mean certainly in the financial arena. Oh gosh, people feel anxious.

Pamela H Reed: 6:10

People feel anxious, right, people feel anxious. There's anxiety, there's stress related to finances. Unfortunately, often there's stress in this. And really what happens is that there's usually shame, there's guilt, and those can just make you because with finances you can easily feel like I'm not getting it right. I'm not doing it right. We get the one little course in school, maybe you know, I know I had consumer math in high school, that's what it was called. They told us how to write a check. They taught us a little bit about credit, a little bit about, you know, paying bills. It was. It was very, um, foundational and very short. It was one semester, I think. It wasn't like a lot, and most of us, that's all the financial education we receive. Unless you have a household in which you know your parents really openly discuss money and talk about different financial strategies, you don't get much education in it. So, anyway, we go on about doing what we know to do the best. We know how to do it.

Pamela H Reed: 7:21

We look up Years have passed. We find ourselves either in debt A lot of us we find ourselves where we're like oh my God, you know, retirement is getting closer than it's ever been. It's like what am I doing? What have I done with my money. And then you're shameful because you're like oh my God, I'm 40, I'm over 40 years old, and what do I really have to show? And you know, I'm going to be retiring and I don't have it. What is this 401k? What is this 403b? What is this stuff?

Pamela H Reed: 7:52

You know, you just have all of this swirling around, which equals stress this swirling around, which equals stress.

Megan Devito: 8:02

Yes, and I think a big thing, that I see, you know, I see it play out in my family, or I see it play out in in in different ways, and I think there's so many different ways that people experience shame, whether it's I feel shameful because I didn't have to struggle or I feel shameful because I am struggling. Shame isn't based on the amount of money you have. Where do you see shame fall into play? With the people you work with?

Pamela H Reed: 8:29

Well, I will say, most of the time is on the side of feeling like they have not met the mark OK, as opposed to having too much, or know. That's a different side. But I tend to deal more so with people who feel like, okay, here I am and I'm very ashamed because my financial house is just not in order. You know, like I said, it can take on the look of a lot of debt, it can take on the look of just not just feeling like unprepared and not ready, you know, and so they're ashamed. They're like and these are people who usually make good money, you know, like as good and quote age, air, quote good, because good is relative, but most people would consider them they're above the median income by far and they're making money. They're, they're they, they don't necessarily have a problem with making money. But the problem comes in with keeping the money and investing in money. You know so, with money, usually the problem can lie certainly in making or earning the money. You do have people who thought I just don't have enough. Then you have people who feel like, well, I have money, but it just goes through my hand so fast, it's just, you know. So they have a problem, more so with keeping the money.

Pamela H Reed: 9:45

And then you have the people where it's like, well, I've done the different things but I haven't really grown it. You know, it's just here and you know I'm getting the bare minimum on it in the bank and I haven't grown it, or nor do I know how. Like I don't really understand all that stuff. It's technical and it just makes me just be like, oh god, I can't even deal with that. And so these are kind of like the different things that people can present with. Like, as you whittle down and getting to know and talking through it, it's like okay, your problem. Usually it can be lumped into one of those different areas and from there we can begin to really look at your individual situation and determine okay, so how can we, you know, get you to a place where, for one? First of all, let's just settle this right now. There is no shame here. No shame allowed. No shame allowed.

Pamela H Reed: 10:37

We've all got our issues.

Megan Devito: 10:40

Thank you.

Pamela H Reed: 10:40

We've all got our issues, so no shame most of us have not received a lot of education in this right. So let's get rid of the shame. You are good, you are smart, you can do this, you're you're able to do this. I'm gonna help you. Um, you're good, you're good, I am big on you're good because we're made in the image of God and just because he decided to make us, he said we are good, so you're good.

Pamela H Reed: 11:13

Now we do all kinds of things. We make decisions with the best, we know how to make the decision, and so we end up in the situations we're in. But you are not a bad person because you have that. You are not a bad person because you don't have all of this money, um, in order, you're just not a bad person. So let's just settle that. You know money is money. It's a tool. We have numbers that are on papers, on computer screens. Let's just neutralize all of that energy, just that. You know, just breathe. You know, yes, these are numbers on a screen, but they are not you the numbers on the screen or in your book or whatever you have it where you keep your money. So once we deal with that, then we can begin to look more closely and get some clarity, because what happens is, with shame, there's often guilt and there's fear. There's just fear because there's uncertainty and it's like, you know, I got some money but I don't really know what I'm doing with it.

Pamela H Reed: 12:19

You know, I don't feel like I'm doing it right. Well, what is right? Well, of course, we see, you know, you're supposed to have this, you're supposed to have that. So they don't feel like they're doing it right. So there's the uncertainty with what they're doing with it, and then there's that overwhelm because you kind of feel like it's disorganized. You know, it's just not in order the way I feel like it should be in order. And with all of that there's usually some avoidance, Like I don't even want to look at it.

Pamela H Reed: 12:49

Let's just keep chugging along.

Megan Devito: 12:50

This is when I go to a store and somebody says, do you want your receipt?

Megan Devito: 12:52

And I'm like, no, no, I don't want to pretend like that didn't happen, yeah, and ask us if we want our receipt.

Pamela H Reed: 13:00

We pay with our card. You're going to be like you want your receipt, thank you.

Megan Devito: 13:11

So acknowledging that we're all experiencing this right, whether I mean I do, I really do think that yes, it's. It's the same problem, with different, a different outlook. Whether we're talking with somebody who's who is you know, who's worked hard their entire lives, and they don't have money in an account to show for it, or you have someone who's hardly worked, who has a ton of money in their account to show for it, it doesn't. I mean, if you're given a bunch of money or you've worked hard in either way, we don't know what to do with it. What do you feel like is if you were to say this is what people need to understand, like this is I love that. You said it's just numbers on a screen, it's just numbers in a book. But when we look at this lack of understanding or this almost resistance to looking at it, where do you think that comes from? Like what is that about? Why are we? Why do we look at it?

Megan Devito: 14:02

like, Ugh!

Pamela H Reed: 14:04

Because I think, for one, like I said, I think the shame and the guilt comes into play, like for sure, like you're just not doing it right. You're not, you know, I'm just not doing it right, I'm not meeting the mark. I've read this article. I mean, I'm not nowhere near what this article is saying I should be. And you know my peers, you see some people around you, they're making moves and they're buying properties, and you just begin to be like, well, golly, you know I haven't done that. And you just can start hearing some of the multiple streams of income, passive income, hearing some of the multiple streams of income, passive income, and you just hear these different things and it can just easily make you feel like, well, I'm just over here going to work or working on my business and I'm not making these power moves.

Pamela H Reed: 14:45

So all of these things can begin to play in your head to just make you just feel like it's another form of not enough. You know I'm not doing it right. Yeah, you know, I'm just out here, just out here, and I'm not doing it right. So it just, it just it causes all kinds of feelings. Basically, you have these thoughts and they create in the feelings and they can just make you move into a place of just paralysis, almost. Or you just avoidance, avoidance, paralysis, just like I just can't, I just can't, you know.

Megan Devito: 15:22

Right, and some of those power moves that we hear about, like people that are out buying real estate. You know, if you listen to, I listened to the Grant Cardone podcast and he's a billionaire real estate investor.

Megan Devito: 15:39

And I'm like, yes, but you're Grant Cardone and I'm Megan Devito, and like, but I do think that there is that. It's almost like a pressure that, whether society puts it on us or we just have so much information that we know what everyone else is doing, like, oh, I'm supposed to be buying real estate, I can't buy groceries or what, how am I supposed to save and like for retirement or for my kids to go to college if, if I can't do these basic things?

Pamela H Reed: 16:08

Yeah, it's easy to compare ourselves with others, especially with social media. Oh my gosh, you just see so many different people doing different things. I mean, they people present themselves in their best light, you know, on social media. So we see, we just think everybody's doing great, like, oh my gosh, did you see them? They flew, they just did a vacation in Fiji, and oh, this one just bought a property and this one is just doing all of these great things. And so it's easy to to, you know, feel like I'm behind, I'm just behind and you know like. But, like I said, we want to just get that thinking out. And then one thing that you said stuck out to me. You said that's, " Grant Cardone.

Pamela H Reed: 16:53

So that's another thing, so I am a Christian life coach at that, and so one of the Christian principles that I work from is that God has given us, he's given us, the power to get wealth. And he didn't say only the Grant Cardones, only the whomevers, the Oprahs. No, he's given all of us the power to get wealth. So we got to get away from the thinking that it's only for her or it's only for him, because he's so smart and she's just so good with people and that person over there is just so great at numbers. I'm not good at numbers, you know I'm not good at numbers. Oh, you know, people just immediately said I'm terrible at math. You know, god has given us the power to get wealth. Let's just settle that. No, it's for all of us.

Megan Devito: 17:49

I think I'm going to go there because you brought it up, and I love this, because there are going to be people that say it says in the Bible that we should give away all our things. Go ahead, let them know what that actually means, because I'm with you. I'm with you that we, God has given us the power to make money and have wealth. He does not want us to be poor, but go ahead and tell him why.

Pamela H Reed: 18:12

No, God doesn't want us to be poor. He has blessed us with the ability to get wealth so that we can be a blessing. We're blessed to be a blessing to others, and there's a parable in the Bible that talks about how he gave talents to. He gave out talents, and talents were basically just opportunities, basically to grow what you have, and the one that buried their talent and didn't grow it, that was the one who was seen as the worst out of it. I'm really paraphrasing this.

Megan Devito: 18:48

No, I got you. I know where you're going.

Pamela H Reed: 18:54

But so the woman with the oil, she had to shut the door, take what she had, sell that oil and begin. And the Lord gave her more and more oil so she would never ran out of oil. In the Bible it's about growth and increase and abundance. You know, it's not about, of course, we are to bless and to give to the poor and give some things away, but we're to grow what we have so that we can show for one, we can show the glory of God. I mean, we talk abundance, but do we really? You know, abundance is kind of like a popular term out here, but we got to believe it's not just for you, it's for me. I can have abundance. He came that we, the scripture says he came that we might have life and have it in abundance. In abundance, and that means to the overflow, not just meeting our needs, but to have more than enough. That it's more than enough to give and to live a life that we desire to live. He wants to give us the desires of our hearts, you know, but you got to believe it. You know it's not just for everybody else, it's for you too. It's for you too. So, yeah, so I want people to know that you too, you too can have it.

Pamela H Reed: 20:10

As I said, I'm a Christian.

Pamela H Reed: 20:11

I was raised in the church a little bit about my story, I'm a preacher's kid, so I've been around church and church life much in my life, and I would notice that you know people are, you know you come into the church and you're encouraged and you're excited and some of the messages would even be about wealth and God has blessed us and we can have the things we desire.

Pamela H Reed: 20:35

And you know, we'll confess I'm blessed and my bank account is blessed and different things that we would get specific. But then I would see people you know still struggle. You would see some that would seem to have increased, but you would see a lot of people that it seemed to be a struggle and I was like there just seems to be a gap between the faith and the faith confession and the actual manifestation or the realization of what they're believing for. And the Bible tells us that faith without the works or without action is dead. Pretty much it's not going to. So we can sit here and say you know I can have it, it's mine, you know we can quote a scripture, but then do we know what to do? And I think that's where people just kind of sometimes just be like I don't know what to do, you know?

Megan Devito: 21:24

I believe it and that would be great, but I don't see it because I'm not doing anything, and part of that is because we don't know what to do. So how do you walk people through that, Like, if we took it down to let's just take this big scary topic of finances where we can throw out, you know we could throw out the stock market, and 401ks, and all these overwhelming topics like you need to invest, but how do we break it down to, where do people start? For people listening that say that sounds great, I would love it if God would bless me, but I don't have the actions because I don't have a clue. What do you tell them?

Pamela H Reed: 21:59

So we got to start. It's like okay. So, like I said, often there's avoidance and there's another word in the Bible. It says lift up your heads. Okay, let's stop avoiding. Lift up your heads. Open Gates and the king of glory will come in. So lift up your head. And what I mean by lift up your head is okay, let's begin to get some clarity.

Pamela H Reed: 22:21

So, where are you? We're going to have to look at the numbers on the screen, but these are just numbers on the screen. They do not determine your worth. They don't. So let's look at the numbers on the screen. Okay, where are you financially? Let's see where you are. Let's see where you are. Let's kind of look what do you have, because you have something. You do have something. You can feel like you don't have anything. Well, let's begin to look what do you have. And so we often look at our income and we look at our bills, but a lot of people just don't sit around and look at net worth. That's one of those times that could even make you like, oh god, what is that? You

Megan Devito: 23:00

Net? ross? I can't remember the difference between the two so we can start by looking at.

Pamela H Reed: 23:08

We can certainly look at everything. So what do you have coming in? What do you have going out? Because that's basically your splending plan. While you might not have planned it, it might have been planned just by what you do. So what do you have coming in? What do you have going out? Then, do you have any assets? Do you have a home that you own? If you do, how much is it worth? Do you have some stock? If you do, how much is it worth? Do you have? What do you have? There are do? How much is it worth? Do you have? What do you have? There are different things you have. Do you have some jewelry that's worth something? Do you have a car that might have some value to it? So you're going to look at all of the things.

Pamela H Reed: 23:44

A retirement account sometimes people have retirement accounts. They just don't pay any attention so it's just chugging along. But let's just take a look at what it is. Let's see what number that. You know it. It's been building what you have. Oh, you got this one from this job, this one from that job, this one. Let's bring them all together to see what you have.

Pamela H Reed: 24:03

So we're going to look and see where you are. It's just like when you're driving a car when are you, what's your current destination, what's your current location, so that we can see where we're going. We want to get to the destination. Of course, the big destination is financial freedom, but we have points along the way. So, right now, we want to see where you are, and so you're going to lift up your head, we're going to look at a screen, we're going to look at the statements and just gather your financial picture, and this is not going to be scary. This, this is just gonna provide clarity so we can see where we want to go. And once we determine where you are, we'll see where you are, and we're also gonna see where do you want to go. Like I said, financial freedom looks different for everyone, so we're gonna establish some goals. What do you want to do? Where do you want to go? You know, and then a starting point, of course, for um, not of course, but a starting point is.

Pamela H Reed: 25:02

Another thing that makes people scared and nervous is that they feel like if the or what makes people have um trauma even, so to speak, is when unexpected things occur, and so we want to make sure that you're prepared for the unexpected. So, if nothing else, let's just get an emergency fund. Let's just get an emergency fund. Let's try to get rid of some of those things that can make you have the stress and the overwhelm arise. And that's from one thing. Oh, my tire blew out on the way to work. Oh, my heating system just went out in the house.

Pamela H Reed: 25:37

Different things happen and when you don't really have an emergency fund or anything in place, a savings basically, is what it is. This one would be dedicated for those unexpected things. Let's just start there. That's the start there and that can be like one of the first goals. You know, sometimes you got the money you just kind of need to just, you know, earmark it for certain something you know, or just be more intentional about its purpose and don't touch it. You know, earmark it for certain something you know, or just be more intentional about its purpose and don't touch it.

Megan Devito: 26:11

You know, and it sounds like it's really stepping back and saying, okay, we've been afraid to look at this for, or you've been afraid to look at this for, however long. Let's, let's finally look. Let's, because maybe it's just as simple as let's just start paying attention.

Pamela H Reed: 26:26

Yes, Just paying more attention, or paying attention at all. It could be just that simple. Just that simple. But yeah, like that fear and from the shame feeding the fear, and you know this can just spiral into all kinds of stuff. It just makes you just want to avoid it all.

Megan Devito: 26:48

Yeah, so do you work primarily with people in a certain age range, like who are the people you normally work with?

Pamela H Reed: 26:56

So my target market is for people who are over 40 years old. Yeah, that you've done. You've been going at this adulting for a little while now. You've been adulting for a while and you're like you know what I need to get my financial house in order because, even though I've been avoiding, I I'm really tired of working as and I'm running to kind of see my future look brighter than just, yeah, you know, seven, seventy-sevel, sixty-seven years old in retirement. You know they have hopes, they have dreams. They want you get to a place in life and sometimes it can come earlier on.

Pamela H Reed: 27:34

I'm not going to say it doesn't, but if you know Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you get to that place of self-actualization, right which is at the top, and it's kind of like, okay, you know, I got the survival needs and all of that taken care of and I've, you know, got my relationships and. But I just want to be in a place where I'm contributing and I'm a. My things are attached to purpose, you know. And so usually with that you discover, you know, you find it even like, well, if I had more money, you know, then I could really be doing what I really want to do, but I'm tethered to this job that I kind of really don't love and you know, it's just all of these thoughts and things and you're like I, just I want to be free.

Megan Devito: 28:21

Yeah, and I think there is so much out there like I'm being tethered to your job is such a I mean it's it's great to have the security of you have the job obviously right there, but it's also it holds you back. Like, yes, I have this job that provides for my basic needs. I can I can pay for my house, I can pay for my food, but I'm also I'm stuck, like I'm stuck with this job and maybe it's not getting you where you want to go. And I think that having the money to be able to for me, that idea of freedom especially in this past week, with two hurricanes in two weeks, it's been like I wish I could do so much more. I wish I had that financial freedom, not just for myself, to be able to go out and to be able to.

Megan Devito: 29:05

Yeah, I'm looking at my deck and I'm like, oh, we need to do deck boards but, um, yes, to be able to make my deck look a lot nicer. But man, there's people in North Carolina and Florida right now, that they would be really happy to have a wall, and I wish I had more than I could give them. I do, and that to me is like the ultimate freedom, right. Like, yes, I can take care of myself, but I can also help other people take care of themselves too.

Pamela H Reed: 29:32

Yes, absolutely.

Pamela H Reed: 29:33

So we talk about the time a lot.

Pamela H Reed: 29:36

You know getting your time back, which, of course, for you to go to be able to help people, you know, having more time that's your own would help, but also being able to be as generous as we wanted to be, to be able to give financially to help others. I know what with myself, um, one of my motivations with the whole financial freedom was like so I can bless other um ministries, startup ministries, you know, you know who they're, the goal is to help, you know, the world, the community, and so some of these churches are startup churches and they, you know, they need the funding to get off the ground. And you know then, like you said, there are people that feel having these devastations, you know, these natural disasters and things like that, and to be able to help, to be able to give financially at a greater level Even, you know, for our children, our families, to be able to leave an inheritance. How about that?

Megan Devito: 30:42

Right. What a gift. And to be able to set someone else to be, have a little more freedom in their life, to have that there and be able to say, okay, you've got a little bit of, we've got this little nest egg here where you can say, okay, take care of this and grow it.

Pamela H Reed: 30:53

Grow it, grow it, grow it. So, yeah, so, once you get the clarity, okay, where are we Then? We can, you know, analyze your flow and optimize your cashflow. That is coming in, that is going out. We can optimize that and you know, it's all under stewardship. We want to, you know, we want to take what God has given us and use it to the best that we can.

Pamela H Reed: 31:15

So we're going to manage more closely and be more intentional and tie what we do more to purpose. You know we're doing things and sometimes we need to just look at these transactions a little more closely, like why am I doing this, you know? So we're going to really optimize the cash flow and from that that's where you, the confidence comes in, because you, you, you feel like there's some order going on and then you can, you can begin to invest and grow and, and that you'll see the um, see it grow, and you're spending in a more conscious way. You're spending a more conscious way, you feel more in control of what you're doing and, basically, you're building habits. You're building those habits that are good habits, to where your money can flow the way you want it to really flow, and not just randomly, you know, based on whims or just, or either bad habits.

Megan Devito: 32:12

It could be bad based on every time I leave the house, I think I need to buy an iced coffee. This is not true, but it is funny and I've seen this with people. I've actually coaching a woman right now and she said but when I go out, I think I should go to McDonald's and get a Diet Coke. And I'm like, yeah, so we've tied it back with her, um, with emotions, and like it's a positive. It makes a positive emotion for her, a positive experience, because we are so emotionally driven, Right and so to be able to say, well, when I imagine I can picture this in my head tell me if this isn't true you sitting down with someone and saying why do you have 20 transactions at Starbucks? What's happening when you're going to Starbucks every day? That's making you go there? Is it just a bad habit or is it because, well, I feel frustrated, so, to feel better, I go out and buy from Starbucks.

Megan Devito: 33:00

That's an expensive habit that. I for sure, can have very easily, like I can be really mindful.

Pamela H Reed: 33:06

Oh my God, and it could be tied to so many things. Just like you said, for many people, spending is emotional.

Megan Devito: 33:12

Retail therapy is no joke, it is real it is Dopamine.

Pamela H Reed: 33:19

It, you know, when you see that pretty clothes and you burnt by it, and then some people it's eating out I know I've talked to people before we're just going out to eat it's just their emotional fixed to. You know, this was a particular couple where it's like that's just one thing we can do to kind of just feel better about our marriage, because it's a lot we don't really love about it, you know. So we go out and we eat and it just helps us emotionally to just feel better.

Megan Devito: 33:50

We went on a date. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Pamela H Reed: 33:54

It is so emotional, I mean, just yeah, retail therapy, you hit the perfect example.

Megan Devito: 34:02

I used to laugh that I'm on to myself, but I would notice that anytime I would start to get stressed out. I would actually think I needed to go buy a new white or black t-shirt, only white or black. I had like white t-shirts and black t-shirts and then like three other colors maybe, but it was like, oh, I definitely need a new white t-shirt. No, I did not, but I was definitely probably already stressing about money, which is funny, because my solution was just to go spend some more. And I think back to what you said at the beginning it can be very hard to hang up for some people, like they have money or had money and suddenly it's gone, and we see this with celebrities and people who win the lottery.

Pamela H Reed: 34:39

Yes, yes, people win the lottery. They just they can't to be able. Can you have money in your account and just let it sit, or do you have to spend it? Can you be comfortable with just having money? Some people are just like that can really be a struggle. It sounds like of course, but when you really think about it, can I just rest and just say, yeah, there's plenty of money in the bank and I don't have to spend it, or does it? Is it more like, well, there's money in the bank, gotta get such such well. You just begin to start thinking of things for which you can and things that are probably things that you can really justify, like well, yeah, I didn't need the deck boards, you know whatever right, right and they're right and there's that balancing act.

Megan Devito: 35:28

But it's so. Our brains are so sneaky.

Pamela H Reed: 35:31

Our brains are so sneaky, our brains are so sneaky, for sure, not very fair, yeah, I know, I know. So, yeah, definitely emotional ties all up in there. So we're going to look at you can see, see the patterns. If you go through the bank statements, you see the patterns. Oh yeah, okay, and you can see, like the bible says, where your heart is, your treasure lies. You can see, kind of, where your treasure lies, like it'll show you yourself.

Pamela H Reed: 36:02

Those things will show you yourself. Not to shame or blame, but let's just say you know what's driving me.

Megan Devito: 36:08

Yeah, that's so good and it's so good just for people to understand, I think, where, when there's shame so often, you know, shame thrives in the dark and if we don't ever, if we don't bring it out there, you'd be like, wait a second, you might be experiencing this, but you can't possibly be the only person in the world experiencing this, especially since you're hearing it on podcast right now and you're hearing it from somebody who coaches people on it, which means you're not the only person. There are so many people out there doing the same things or getting rid of our money because there's something uncomfortable about having it, or because we have this habit attached to it, or we have this thought about why we should or have it or shouldn't have it, or have enough or don't have enough. It's really okay to look at your bank statement and to say what is going on. I did this. I did this last night.

Megan Devito: 36:58

My 18 year old came home two nights ago. He's like got to go to my room, got to make a budget and I'm like, thank goodness about a time, and so his stuff is. He just turned 18 in July and his bank account is actually under my name, so I pulled it up and I'm like what did you buy for $40 on TikTok? But yeah, just being willing to say oh, oh, that's really uncomfortable. I can't believe I did that.

Pamela H Reed: 37:23

Yes, yes, yes, I mean, we do, we all do some things. You know, sometimes we indulge in different ways, you know, we, we all do it. But I love the way he was like you got to make a budget.

Megan Devito: 37:34

I know I was like. Well, what happened? What happened today at school?

Pamela H Reed: 37:38

His awareness was great. Okay, look, I know this is not something I need to continue to do. Let me budget, do like doing it. So that's the thing. If you can be planned in your spending, at least plan for it, plan for the things that we don't want this to be like a frugality drudgery where it's like I can't ever have the latte. You know, it's just safe, safe, safe, safe. No, that's on. We want to enjoy the journey through financial freedom. So let's just be a little bit more planned, like, let's plan in the joy, we can plan in some lattes, we can plan in some travel. You know, we just want to have a plan and that's what I want to help with.

Pamela H Reed: 38:24

I want to help with the plan. I want you to have a plan that's tailored to you, of course, and your situation, that can help guide your financial decisions, so that you feel confident in what you're doing and that you're on the path to financial freedom.

Megan Devito: 38:40

I love that. Tell people where they can find you. How can they connect with you to get some help?

Pamela H Reed: 38:45

Well, please please, please, reach out to me. My website is Pamela P-A-M-E-L-A-H-R-E-E-D. com. That's Pamela H Reed. com. From there you can reach out, you can schedule coaching, you can, you know, find out more about me. That will help you. I do have a podcast confidence steps to financial freedom that we drop episodes on mondays. And let's see instagram. I'm at pamela h reed, @pamela h reed. So, uh, my instagram is not the most up-, date, but still reach out. I'm checking it regularly and I plan to have more content, so follow me. So those are the three ways right now, megan. So I look forward to hearing from you.

Megan Devito: 39:36

Yeah, and I will link all of those in the show notes so people can connect with you and find you. Thank you so much for your encouragement and for your direction, because we need it crazy out there and I think that this is something that, once we have a little more control, all the stress and anxiety comes down and you are such such an inspiration and like such a great resource for people. Thank you for being on today. You're welcome. It's been my pleasure.

Megan Devito: 40:03

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the More Than Anxiety podcast. Before you go, be sure to subscribe and leave a review so others can easily find this resource as well. And, of course, if you're ready to feel calm, to stop overthinking and have a lot more fun, you can go to the show notes, click the link and talk to me about coaching. I'll talk to you soon.