More Than Anxiety

Ep 86 - Meet Pam Covarrubius: Alignment coach, Podcaster & Recovering Procrastinator

• Megan Devito • Episode 86

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In Episode 86 of the More Than Anxiety podcast, I'm talking with Pam Covarrubius, an alignment coach, podcaster on Café con Pam, and recovering procrastinator.  She shares the process and benefits of EFT, a blend of traditional Chinese medicine, NLP, and energy psychology, to rewire the brain's response to stress and how using advanced EFT in her coaching, she helps her clients heal themselves and previous generations.

Pam and I talked about the  mental health stigmas that exist in the Latinx community and about the pressures of immigrant life and how these shape their views on mental health.

To talk more with Pam, be sure to check out her podcast, Café con Pam and follow her on Instagram and YouTube

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You know you're overwhelmed, burned out, sick to death of work but also trying to do everyting for everyone at home. TAKE THIS QUIZ to find out why you're so overwhelmed and what to do about it.

Megan Devito:

Welcome to the More Than Anxiety Podcast. I'm Megan Devito and I'm the life coach for stressed out and anxious women who want more out of life. I'm here to help you create a life you love to live, where anxiety isn't holding you back. Get ready for a lighthearted approach to managing anxiety through actionable steps, a lot of truth talk and inspiration to take action so you walk away feeling confident, calm and ready to live. Let's get to it. Hey there. You are listening to episode 86 of the More Than Anxiety podcast.

Megan Devito:

This week I am talking with Pam Colvarrubias from Cafe Con Pam. Pam's an alignment coach, a speaker, a podcaster and a recovering procrastinator, and in this episode she is sharing the trauma-informed practices, including different types of EFT, that she uses in her coaching sessions with the Latinx community. She's also the host of the globally acclaimed podcast Cafe Con Pam, where she shares candid, thought-provoking insights from diverse voices about entrepreneurship candid, social justice and personal growth. She is a valuable resource for people who are looking for business success and who really want to be involved in community-driven, positive change. I loved this interview. I loved the method of matrix EFT that she shared. I didn't know anything about that. It turns out, there are different types of EFT. If you don't know what EFT is, she's going to talk about that, and if you've heard of tapping, then you do want to know what it is, but you're going to learn so much more.

Megan Devito:

She tells us how she helps her clients and I am just so grateful that she took time to come on this podcast and share her experience and her expertise and her amazing story. You are going to love this episode and, of course, I will be sharing Pam's podcast in the notes as well, so that you can listen to her and reach out for more information on how you can work with her. Enjoy the episode. Hey everybody, thank you for joining me today on the More Than Anxiety podcast. I am so excited to have Pam Covarrubias with me today. She is with Cafe Con, pam. I'm going to link her podcast in the show notes or on YouTube, wherever you're watching or listening to this, so you can connect with her after the show. But I can't wait to introduce you to her today and I'm going to let her just take it away and get started and tell everybody who you are and what you do.

Pam Covarrubius:

Yeah, thank you for having me today. I Pam Covarrubias . I, as you shared, I am a podcaster as well, and I also I'm a speaker and I'm an alignment coach

Megan Devito:

Okay, alignment coach tell me, because I know there's so many different coaches that do so many different things, so tell me what an alignment coach does.

Pam Covarrubius:

I call myself an alignment coach because I work with the nervous system, so I'm a clinical EFT practitioner. That's kind of like very wordy. People don't know what that is. I do a lot of somatic work. I am trained in a different kind of EFT called matrix re-imprinting, which is also something that people don't know. And so alignment I use the word alignment because once our nervous system is regulated, grounded, we're able to go and take aligned action and do whatever it is that we're choosing to do. That's why I use the word alignment.

Megan Devito:

That is amazing and you have my attention because I know about EFT a little and it has helped me. So I have a long history of personal anxiety, from the time I was a little kid until I was about 40, and so one of the things that really helped me was EFT. But I did not know about maybe the specific kind of EFT and there's probably a lot of people listening that are like EFT, I have no idea what that is. So can you just tell them, like, what the heck is EFT for people who don't know?

Pam Covarrubius:

Yes, so EFT stands for emotional freedom techniques. It makes no sense, it's a really wordy name. People also call it tapping. So basically it uses three principles traditional Chinese medicine, so we use the meridian points in the body, that the various parts of an inner body that are connected to our spine, therefore our nervous system, therefore the rest of our organs. So TCM, traditional Chinese medicine, nlp, neurolinguistic programming, and that is also another tool that uses a lot of psychology, that uses the use of our words so that we can create neurotransmitter like new neural pathways, and energy psychology. So lots of psychology principles, because we're able to go into various techniques using EFT and we can either solve unresolved beliefs that we may have, we can also go into future thinking, visioning, and so, in simple terms, we call it good food for the amygdala. And the amygdala is the alarm system that we have that tells us that danger is around. And is there different types of eft? Yes, so happy tapping, for example, is the tapping that you see on YouTube, and that's how I started.

Pam Covarrubius:

I started tapping on YouTube because it's it's tapping that's very surface. We, through a YouTube video you can't really go deep with people because you need to, as a coach, as a clinical AFT practitioner, we sometimes we uncover things that are hard and so through a YouTube video we can't hold the space for people because then you know it would be, it would be a little bit dangerous, and so happy tapping is a tapping that you can find on YouTube, on social media. I do a lot of happy tapping on social media as well, and that is the introduction to EFT. Once you work with a practitioner, then you can go much deeper into various aspects that you may need, and I discovered EFT because of my ADHD.

Megan Devito:

Ah, okay, so I know that there's all these different ways, so I had no idea there was anything more than my little Brad Yates videos where I did like this tapping, and I'm like this is amazing, I feel so much better. I do know that a lot of teachers are starting to use it in classrooms, which I think is phenomenal, but I only, I only know what I know, right? And I for me it was for anxiety,

Megan Devito:

but tell me, because I need to know more about how this helps with ADHD, because I can see I mean I've seen the benefit with anxiety. But how does it - because there's such a correlation between the two? Anyway, right. Like we, we know they run on the same gene line, we know that I mean we could even throw autism in there, we can throw all of those things that tend to fall on that genetic line where we're maybe a little more predisposed to it. But how did this help you beause

Megan Devito:

I may try this one too. And I'm going to be putting my kids up and like listen, kids, we're tapping tonight. So we're doing this, yeah, yeah.

Pam Covarrubius:

So when I found out that I had ADHD, I was in college and I was procrastinating. So I'm a recovering procrastinator and a reform people, people pleaser and perfectionist, and so I thought my brain was broken because my teacher in college said look this project, you turn it in. If you had put the time, it would have been great and award worthy, but you did it last night and so I can't submit it. Because I went to design school and so tests were literally projects that you had to put together and create and and go through a critique, and so we would get I don't know a month or two to complete a thing, and I would literally go the week of submission and do everything. And so after she told me that I, I really got down because I was like you know what, if she's telling me that I could create things that are word worthy, but I'm not doing it, what's happening?

Pam Covarrubius:

And so I went to the counseling center. We did all the things and I realized that I had ADHD. And then I went into a super rabbit hole of all the things that I could possibly do, to quote fix it, it. And that's how I found tapping, and what I then realized is that I started tapping. I also realized that I had anxiety, so I was super anxious because of my ADHD.

Pam Covarrubius:

With ADHD, I don't have a strong executive function and so because I can't make decisions, because my brain lacks dopamine, then my anxiety comes in by saying you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing, and then it goes into like the various, like overthinking moments and so in reality, it helped with anxiety and that calmed my brain down to get to a place where I was grounded and regulated to take action.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, and it also helps with decision making that's so good, because it is one of those. I think it's so. I mean, I think it's so interesting not to backtrack too much, but when we do see people who have struggled for so long with anxiety. I'm sorry for me, it's always been, my mom will say something like what did I do? And I'm like, it wasn't you. Like I don't know, you're fine. And I look back and I'm like I don't, I can't think of anything, you know. But then I'm starting to see these traits.

Megan Devito:

My, my son was recently diagnosed with ADHD and I'm starting to see these traits with him and I'm like, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, and I'm 48. So a lot of times, you know, people are just finding this stuff out, even in their 40s, where it's like wait a minute. This has always been a thing for me. I had no idea. I've never gone to you know, necessarily be diagnosed or anything, but I see more and more and more and I had no idea that you could do tapping for that, yeah, and now I'm so curious, I'm going to like start figuring this out. So so really helping you with the ADHD, which then in turn, helped you feel less anxious, because you weren't your brain was not always scrambled, trying to figure out how can I put this in order and how can I make myself move forward.

Megan Devito:

Totally Amazing, I love that. Okay, so I want to go a little bit more into the idea of chronic procrastination, because I actually had the opposite problem where I was always like, let's just get it done now so I never have to think about it again. And, yeah, very much an opposite, which was also a very much an, I'm sure, probably related to anxiety. But that's always been my thing is just go fast, get it done, forget about it forever. But talk to me a little bit more about chronic procrastination and how you figured this all out.

Pam Covarrubius:

For sure and I love that you mentioned your type of They just don't get the thing that's important done. And so when you say I would get everything, you, you probably are not a procrastinator, but I I think it's worth mentioning that chronic procrastination could come in. It's not always freeze mode. Sometimes it's action taking but it's not the important action. So, for example, if I have to send an email to a client who's waiting for me, I could clean my inbox, I could get everything else done. I could go like clean my bathroom, go do dishes, do laundry, like being highly productive. So that's an active procrastinator and not send the email because that's the important thing. Passive procrastinator is when you legit just freeze mode and it's I. Given my knowledge on trauma and my training in EFT, I would say it's it's. It's a trauma response because what's on the other side of getting the thing done?

Pam Covarrubius:

And so many times chronic procrastinators are actual perfectionists, because people tend to procrastinate when they don't feel like they have control or when there's fear. And the fear something that I discovered when I was exploring my fear and when I was exploring my procrastination, I was never afraid of failing, because failing for someone that looks like me, failing is a given, like I'm put in this world as a Latina, as an immigrant, as a non-English speaker. It's my first language, my humanness is set to fail, and so failing is never a fear for me. It's actually succeeding because I don't have models, because I don't know what it's like to be on the other side, because I don't have people to ask what does it feel like to be on the other side? And so the fear piece when it comes to procrastination is super important. Perfectionism, feeling that you're not doing it enough, and the anxiety is very much linked to procrastination as well

Megan Devito:

But because I think that we do, we do look at perfectionism as, 'oh, I, I want to be', you know, especially with the people that I work with, like 'I don't want to mess up', 'I don't want people to think that I don't know what I'm doing'. I don't know that. But your experience is very, very different. The idea of not having that model of what to do and I know you mentioned to me before we talked that really even the Latino and Latinx community not necessarily being super supportive or super into the idea of getting help it's kind of like a giant. I mean, the way I related it to is it's almost like this giant, like we're still back in my childhood, in the eighties where I was like suck it up.

Megan Devito:

suck it up, buttercup. This is going to be fine. You can do it. It is not a thing. It's very okay. Yes, what is that like?

Pam Covarrubius:

It's very challenging. I, when I started podcasting back in 2016, I would, once a month, I would bring in a friend of mine who's a therapist and she's a Latina therapist. So I told her back in 2016, let's talk about mental health. And my friends other podcasters like friends of mine they were like oh, you're so privileged because you get to talk about mental health, because we don't do that, we just get over it. And so that's when that gave me so much more fuel to talk about mental health.

Pam Covarrubius:

And now there's more and more I feel like millennials, my generation, is talking more about mental health.

Pam Covarrubius:

However, there's still I mean, we're still dealing with our parents who have the stigma and, from what I have seen, I've and I read an article a while back around the stigma of mental health.

Pam Covarrubius:

It's very much linked to colonization, even like it goes way back because religion was put, was indoctrinated to people, and so the idea is that especially, especially for immigrants, I mean it's still a stigma. It's the experience is, it's broad because you have the immigrant experience, you have the first gen experience, you have the second gen experience, you know, and then so there's a lot of layers to that, and then you have the people that live in Latin America, that also there's a different kind of stigma, also there's a different kind of stigma. But in a nutshell, what I have seen is that it's all linked to faith because god was put on us. So much, really, when colonization happened, native, the native people in the land were removed from their faith because a new type of faith was put on us, and so as the generation started happening and the conversation around religion started happening I mean, we come from very religious cultures and so the conversation is very much around we don't talk about like a mental health issue, because that means that you're not faithful. You don't not faithful.

Pam Covarrubius:

Your faith, you're not like your faith in God is not enough, uh -huh it just makes me want to go or you're weak-minded because you know quote god is like, gives like strong character, I don't know, and there's so much link to religion. It's's very hidden though. There's like lots of undertones that are not like now said, but it's like, if you look back and I question all the time, like, why do you say that? In fact, if I can share a conversation with my cousin, I was so mad because she, she owns a business and she was telling me that one of her employees was not doing well and, unfortunately, lots of times, especially immigrants, they go to alcohol and drugs because that's what, that's the only thing. And so he called her to tell her that he was not doing well. And her husband said something around we are going to send him to the loquero; the loquero is like the crazy man and he met a therapist, yeah, and so there's still a lot of that type of stigma around dealing with mental health situations, and so I had to have a conversation and be like no, that's not one, that's not how you call it.

Pam Covarrubius:

Two, just because you can't see what's wrong with them, he's telling you he's not doing well. Let's find some resources. They exist. We're not in the times anymore of just getting over it. We're not working bodies anymore. And the other thing in the times anymore of just getting over it we're not working bodies anymore. And the other thing in the US, especially for immigrants and children of immigrants, our bodies are seen as working bodies. We are the workforce. Just that's how a body like mine is assumed that we do intense labor, and so horses don't have mental health issues, you know. So we just get over it, get back to work, and that's what we do. So it's less of a stigma now than it used to be, but the fight still continues yeah, that whole just get over it idea.

Megan Devito:

I mean if it were that simple, right, yeah, okay, I would love to. Yeah, it's sort of like yeah, I mean, get over it. I mean how many times? Yeah, that's, that's a lot, but I think that it's so interesting Also the idea of religion being wrapped into it, and I've told this story before that I can remember, at like my lowest, lowest, lowest point, laying in bed and just like begging God to be like okay, look, I can't do this anymore.

Megan Devito:

It dawned on me years later, after I was like well into recovery, where I'm like, whoa, I was doing that totally wrong, like, totally wrong. Like every thing that I could possibly have done wrong with I mean between faith and between anxiety, between like psychology and like somatic practices. I'm like every single thing I did just made it worse. I had no clue what I was doing, but I really did have that thought of no, obviously I'm just not doing this whole Christian thing right either, like I'm screwing everything up. But to have that be part of I mean and that was something that it wasn't put on me but to have that be like actually set on my head as a crown, that's, that's a lot. Yeah, so you are taking that whole stigma and hopefully like helping to move that aside. How are you doing that? Do you feel like you're out conquering the world? Do you feel like this is one person at a time? How do you feel like this is going?

Pam Covarrubius:

Iit's going? I think yeah. So I think my passion for mental health started with, actually, my grandfather, because he he was an attorney and he I grew up with him, and so he would get home from work and the law consumed him so much that he would go into his like studio room and smoke cigarettes for the rest of the night after work. And like he was talking to my dad about him, he my dad says 'yeah, I had an absent father, because even though he was there, he wasn't there because he was fully depressed.'

Pam Covarrubius:

And so me, as a little girl, having seen just a little bit of it cause I didn't, you know just a little bit of it, because I didn't, you know just a little bit of it I got to be very curious about mental health and how we don't talk about it, because my grandfather never did, and he died depressed and probably anxious. My grandma was super anxious. And so how do I do it now? One client at a time. We're doing one session at a time I do now the the other piece of tapping that I do is called matrix or imprinting, and that allows us to go into inner child work, and so it's literally healing one little girl at a time that's amazing.

Megan Devito:

That is so good. Like every time anybody says that, it makes me get all teared up. I'm like it's like this army of little girls are gonna like come out and it's gonna be so good. Yeah, because then they go back and heal mom. Yeah, yeah, and then mom can heal their kids and this is how we break it right, I mean for everybody across the globe. It's kind of been my thing, like if we can all just figure out how to help ourselves and then help one more person, we could knock this out.

Megan Devito:

We're just going to multiply it. I mean, look, we get to 8 billion people on this planet. We can do it. It is but such good work. I just love that. That's amazing. So I want to know, can you show people? I mean, I know we talked about happy tapping and we talked about matrix tapping Can you tell me, like out of my own curiosity, is it a different method or is it just the different, the thoughts and the like, the verbalization, like the NLP part of it that changes?

Pam Covarrubius:

It's. It's a different method.

Pam Covarrubius:

So when I do regular EFT, you tap on the side of the hand, and you go through the top of the head, eyebrow, side of the eye, under the eye, under the nose, under the mouth, collarbone, under the arm. Those are the basic 12 points that you do in regular tapping. When we go into the matrix, you go. It's very close. It's not, but it's close to hypnosis. So we, through a series of exercises we do, we tap on the fingers instead of the full body and we use finger tapping to get people into a relaxed state, to enter then into the part of the memories where their inner child lives.

Pam Covarrubius:

And so yeah, so matrix is a much deeper but actually is gentler than regular EFT, in fact, because you're removed from it.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, I can see that, and then I'm always so when I've done it, and you're right, you know I do, like the that I chop on the side of the hand and like, yeah. So I've done that and practiced that and um so, but it seems like I'm thinking like even fingertip feels gentler than like trying to find the spot on, like am I even hitting this in the right spot?

Megan Devito:

Like especially, yeah, so all the spots, so different meridians (different meridians) that, and does that change in terms of the way like the memory is stored, or is it more a different

Pam Covarrubius:

It's just a different access point. What happens with regular EFT? We activate the body. And so if you've ever done one-on-one tapping with a clinical EFT practitioner, you probably you could access memories and you access them in the body. Okay, when we go in the when we do matrix work you, because the finger tapping allows you to like, fully be in, it's just a really weird thing. It's hard to explain.

Megan Devito:

No, you're speaking my language. I love it it everybody else, just tune out if you don't get it.

Pam Covarrubius:

I know so it gets you. So basically, we, we travel timelines so we're able to get into, into the place and space where the memory happened and present you remains, present you here, and so what's really cool, what did you freeze? What's really cool about matrix work is that are we back?

Megan Devito:

uh, let me see my internet. Yeah, we froze for a sec, okay. Um, what's the last thing you heard? Uh, I think the uh that we? It was talking about the timeline when you talked about present. You is still here okay.

Pam Covarrubius:

So present you is still here, and what's really cool is that present you remains present you so you're able to witness whatever happened. And present you shows up for little you. That's what happens in matrix. So when we do regular EFT, present you and little you are blended, and so that's why it's so much more intense than and there's gentle techniques. There's a few like 10 different types of gentle techniques that we use in regular clinical AFT, and gentle techniques mean when we hit a trauma point, where we can use those techniques to prevent you from reliving it, because what we don't want is to re-traumatize people.

Pam Covarrubius:

What happens in Matrix and the reason why I do, when I do trauma work, I do Matrix now only is because you're completely dissociated. So present you is, stays present you, and then we're able to witness whatever happened and support that version of you. And it's really cool because then, so when little version of you may need some support from another version of you, we can call that so it's similar for just to get some familiarity with family systems type of work, you bring in different parts so we're able to bring in the different parts of you and keep distance from it. That's a difference.

Megan Devito:

That's amazing. And so, I mean it's so different. I think that when we think about therapies one of the things that I actually just saw a post not too long ago on threads and it said what are the reasons that people don't go to therapy? And I replied to this post and I said because they're terrified of having to bring all these emotions to the surface. And somebody's reply was but why? And I'm like they're hard, it hurts and it makes you cry in front of people and it's, it's hard and like it's not that it's not valuable, but that idea of going in there bearing your soul to someone that you don't know, sometimes it's enough for people just to say no, and they so much need that help. But to be able to offer this where it's like no, you don't have to jump back into that trauma alone and relive it over and over again, I just think that's beautiful and it's so helpful for people who do have some really big awful things that they're trying to work through.

Pam Covarrubius:

So, yeah, that is incredible and I didn't know that was possible.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, that's so good. Tell me like one of the, like one of the sessions that you're most proud of, without giving away. I don't want you to give away. Yeah, I won't break

Pam Covarrubius:

So many, because I had a client, because I work with first generation women and femmes who are looking to own their voice and stand in their power. And so one of my clients, high achieving Latina, owns her business super successful, everything on paper is like - she got it, but she was dealing with this belief of not being enough. So it's kind of like in her case it didn't matter what accolades she had accomplished, it was always chasing the next one and the next one. And she couldn't find herself at a place of contentment. And so I'm all for like, go for the next success, and could you sit in the contentment? And for her that was not possible. She had to chase the next thing and chase the next thing.

Pam Covarrubius:

And so when we went to the matrix, we found a moment in her life where she had done something and she needed her dad to be there for her, and he wasn't. And so we were able to bring in her dad, energetically speaking, and ask him if he could tell her that he was proud of her. And he couldn't. And he said because I need my dad to tell me that he's proud of me. And so we brought little dad, little version of dad and all of this present her is like orchestrating this. So we brought little version of dad and grandpa. And then grandpa, like this macho Mexican, like from the flancho, like he was like what are you talking about? And that's how I, for me, as a practitioner, that's how I know like it's really happening, because the things that people say sometimes I'm like you're not making this up, like this is actually how a grandfather would talk, you know. And so grandpa could not understand. He just couldn't get it. He was like tell you, I'm proud of what you need to get to work.

Pam Covarrubius:

And little dad, big older dad, present dad said well to little dad, he needs to know that he's nine years old and he, he can still be a kid. That's all he needs, because he started working that young. And so then grandpa was like no, I need my wife to come. And so grandma came in and it was like this, like so many different generations and layers of people, and then grandma finally was like you can tell him. So we needed permission from his wife which is fascinating to tell grandpa, to tell son, little dad that he was proud of him that he could be a kid, that he could go play, that he deserved to play and be a happy kid and still had to work. Because we're not changing the reality, we're just shifting the perspective. And so then, when once little dad understood that he was able to be a kid and play and have fun, then older dad was able to tell his daughter that he was proud of her little daughter.

Pam Covarrubius:

And so when we did that session and what's cool about generational healing? That's truly generational healing. You know when people talk about generational healing that we went layers and layers of generations. And I love getting messages from her like, oh my gosh, we accomplished this win in my office and I'm celebrating. Like I'm actually sitting here in joy and I'm crying happy tears because she would go into freeze mode, like she couldn't even like nothing. And so now she's able to celebrate and that's a more win to me than anything.

Megan Devito:

Yes, and how motivating for her that she actually gets to celebrate when she does something good, so that when she wants to do something even bigger, she can, but she doesn't have to to feel good. Oh, that is magic. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you're a magician and people. I'm totally intrigued by this idea of bringing back like the grandparents and then like grandma's in charge, which is amazing too. But, um, yeah, that was really cool to see. Right? Like, um, I'm going to have to ask my wife first. That is so, so cool. So, and so you said you mostly work with first generation immigrants and just like high achieving, like latinx women. Yes, yep, okay, perfect. So how do people find you people that are listening to this podcast? Where do they go? What do they need to know to be able to work with you?

Megan Devito:

Yeah, so you can go to cafecompam. com that's the easiest one to write or pamcovarrubius. com is the my personal site, where you can find out all the things that I do one-on-one work especially. Perfect. And I am going to have all of those links and all of the information in the show notes and on YouTube and the comment section, or whatever that little section is that I can never figure out what to write there, but it will all be there so you can find it, and it'll also go out in my email newsletter that I sent so that, hopefully, anyone who's like oh man, I got to talk to her and how can you not be after that We'll be reaching out to you. This is such amazing work. I just love it.

Pam Covarrubius:

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for coming on today and sharing that. People have to be ready for it.

Megan Devito:

Yes, oh, for sure, I think that, yeah, yeah, there's always that level of what am I going to learn about myself? Yeah, yeah, what do I not know? So, yeah, but how amazing when you get to let it go and release all of that.

Pam Covarrubius:

That's so good. It's really fun and it's yeah, it's awesome when people give themselves permission because you don't have to suffer through it again. And I get a lot of to your point earlier when people are like, why don't you go to therapy? I've gotten to work with several people who've been re-traumatized by doing different practices where they have to retell the story or they have to kind of like relive what happened, and so I want to clarify that we don't do that. I'll never ask you to retell me what happened. In fact, I tell you not to. I don't need to know what happened. I don't need you to think about what happened, which is you to go and like change the perspective.

Megan Devito:

Amazing.

Pam Covarrubius:

Shift the perspective.

Megan Devito:

Amazing Shift, the perspective so good. Yeah, that right away should be a relief for every single person that's listening to this. Who's like, yes, but I'm so afraid of having to tell it again. I think that is I mean.

Megan Devito:

I know that recently coaches have been catching a bad rap for a lot of things, but I think that when you get someone who is very, I mean, who is so, first of all, able to help you and they are there specifically because we want to see you grow that we're going to tell you you, you don't have to dive into that, and I think that is a really big gift that comes with coaching. That kind of does set us apart sometimes from therapy, where I don't need to know your story. We just need to talk about how you feel and how you want to feel. Instead, let's go there, let's really go into the place where you feel solid. So amazing, amazing work, and I feel so blessed that I got to talk with you today, because every time I hear of other people that are out there doing this work to just try and help people feel better and to recover and to break this so our kids do not have to keep going through that same crap. It is amazing.

Pam Covarrubius:

Yes, yes, I've seen that too, because you know, they say, when we heal, we heal seven generations backwards and seven generations forward. And I have lots of clients with kids and many times we do some matrix work on mom and then she comes back and she's like you know, my kid, my teenager, who never listens to me, all of a sudden he is like super friendly and I'm like I don't know what happened.

Megan Devito:

How's that? You know what you could sell like billions of dollars in coaching on that one point, I can make your teenager smile and listen to you. Yes, I'll buy whatever you're selling. Yes, through you, they don't have to do anything. That is amazing. Yes, oh my gosh. Well, thank you again for being here.

Pam Covarrubius:

Thank you it was a joy.

Megan Devito:

It was a joy. I'm so good to meet you and to talk with you today. Thank you, this was awesome. All right, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the More Than Anxiety podcast. Before you go, be sure to subscribe and leave a review so others can easily find this resource as well. And, of course, if you're ready to feel more relaxed, have more energy, more confidence and a lot more fun, you can go to the show notes, click the link and talk to me about coaching. Talk to you soon.